Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.2 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Citation Station: the belief that there is a God?

Bottom of Page

1 to 44 of 44

  1.  
  1.  

    I need to gather information over the next week, and Id like to find out about different peoples religions and listen to people debate the exstitance of a higher power.

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 23rd 2007
     

    Well, umm, if it helps, I'm LDS, aka Mormon. I don't really know what to say, but if you have questions or statments or whatever, I'd be more than happy to respond, especially since I think that no one else on this site is. No offense, just some kind of observation...

    :heart:

    •  
      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     
    Posted By: sullyxr2288

    I need to gather information over the next week, and Id like to find out about different peoples religions and listen to people debate the exstitance of a higher power.

    See: The Official Religious Thread

    •  
      CommentAuthorFact totum
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     
    Posted By: Trance
    Posted By: sullyxr2288

    I need to gather information over the next week, and Id like to find out about different peoples religions and listen to people debate the exstitance of a higher power.

    See:The Official Religious Thread

    And This site

    •  
      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     
    Posted By: Piggie8

    I'd be more than happy to respond, especially since I think that no one else on this site is. No offense, just some kind of observation...

    No one else here is from LDS, or no one here is religious? If it's the latter, I'd argue that Trance, Rot Bottom, and myself are all religious.

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     
    Posted By: cmseagle
    Posted By: Piggie8

    I'd be more than happy to respond, especially since I think that no one else on this site is. No offense, just some kind of observation...

    No one else here is from LDS, or no one here is religious? If it's the latter, I'd argue that Trance, Rot Bottom, and myself are all religious.

    No one else on here is LDS. I know that others are relgious.

    •  
      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     

    Oh, gotcha.

    •  
      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     

    I don't know about LDS, but I have my suspicions that some people here pertain to LSD. :ninja:

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 24th 2007
     
    Posted By: Trance

    I don't know about LDS, but I have my suspicions that some people here pertain to LSD.:ninja:

    :xd:

  10.  
    Posted By: Piggie8
    Posted By: Fact totum

    Well -- at least those 7 are based on something.

    I didn't appreciate that comment.

    What's Mormonism based on? I'm hoping it's more than the South Park episode taught me.

    •  
      CommentAuthorRot Bottom
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2007
     
    Posted By: cmseagle
    Posted By: Piggie8

    I'd be more than happy to respond, especially since I think that no one else on this site is. No offense, just some kind of observation...

    No one else here is from LDS, or no one here is religious? If it's the latter, I'd argue that Trance, Rot Bottom, and myself are all religious.

    Absolutely.

    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]
    Posted By: Piggie8
    Posted By: Fact totum

    Well -- at least those 7 are based on something.

    I didn't appreciate that comment.

    What's Mormonism based on? I'm hoping it's more than the South Park episode taught me.

    Take the bible. Then add a New and Improved! New Testament. Now, wander (or ride bicycles) around desert towns talking to people who look like they need to be saved. Then have 3 wives and 14 children, live on a farm, and stockpile rifles (the legal, semi-automatic kind (make sure you buy the little do-it-yourself-semi-to-automatic-rifle kits, too)).

    •  
      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2007
     
    Posted By: Rot Bottom

    Take the bible. Then add a New and Improved! New Testament.

    I fitted my Bible out with two exhausts pipes and 8 inch spinners.

  13.  

    I never look at mine. It has attraction control.

    •  
      CommentAuthornyarfdude
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2007
     
    Posted By: Rot Bottom

    Take the bible. Then add a New and Improved! New Testament. Now, wander (or ride bicycles) around desert towns talking to people who look like they need to be saved. Then have 3 wives and 14 children, live on a farm, and stockpile rifles (the legal, semi-automatic kind (make sure you buy the little do-it-yourself-semi-to-automatic-rifle kits, too)).

    ╔╗╔═╦╗
    ║╚╣║║╚╗
    ╚═╩═╩═╝

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2007
     
    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]
    Posted By: Piggie8
    Posted By: Fact totum

    Well -- at least those 7 are based on something.

    I didn't appreciate that comment.

    What's Mormonism based on? I'm hoping it's more than the South Park episode taught me.

    It's not the fact that I'm Mormon, religion is based on something, whether you agree with it or not.

    Yes, it's a lot more than South Park.

  16.  
    Posted By: Rot Bottom

    Take the bible. Then add a New and Improved! New Testament. Now, wander (or ride bicycles) around desert towns talking to people who look like they need to be saved. Then have 3 wives and 14 children, live on a farm, and stockpile rifles (the legal, semi-automatic kind (make sure you buy the little do-it-yourself-semi-to-automatic-rifle kits, too)).[/p]

    Yeah, that's one stereotype, there's plenty more, but I'm actually genuinely interested to hear what Mormonism has got to offer. If I look at the South Park episode as purely instructional and cut out all the crap, they sum up pretty much what I've heard about Mormonism. Since Piggie8 doesn't seem too eager to spill the beans, I'll spill what beans I know:

    Joseph Smith has a revelation, angels come, give him tablets, and two translating pieces, the Urim and Thummim. He reads the tablets, promptly misplaces the translating pieces and the tablets, then tells (convinces?) his friend that all this has happened. Mr. Smith, being the only one who's actually read the missing tablets, dictates to his buddy all the stuff that he remembers, which is the whole book of Mormon. As a Mormon, one tithes 10% to the church, one is required to go on a mission, and I think the number of souls one can convert sort of wins a heavenly raffle, where eventually one can live on their own planet with Jesus.

    Edit: I forgot this too - Joseph Smith blazes a trail straight to the dry salty paradise of Utah, and tells everyone, "Here we are! This is it!" and proceeds to marry 70-odd wives (could have been Brigham Young I'm thinking of...)

    Edit #2: Ken Jennings is an amazing fellow.

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2007
     
    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]
    Posted By: Rot Bottom

    Take the bible. Then add a New and Improved! New Testament. Now, wander (or ride bicycles) around desert towns talking to people who look like they need to be saved. Then have 3 wives and 14 children, live on a farm, and stockpile rifles (the legal, semi-automatic kind (make sure you buy the little do-it-yourself-semi-to-automatic-rifle kits, too)).

    [/p]

    Yeah, that's one stereotype, there's plenty more, but I'm actually genuinely interested to hear what Mormonism has got to offer. If I look at the South Park episode as purely instructional and cut out all the crap, they sum up pretty much what I've heard about Mormonism. Since Piggie8 doesn't seem too eager to spill the beans, I'll spill what beans I know:

    Joseph Smith has a revelation, angels come, give him tablets, and two translating pieces, the Urim and Thummim. He reads the tablets, promptly misplaces the translating pieces and the tablets, then tells (convinces?) his friend that all this has happened. Mr. Smith, being the only one who's actually read the missing tablets, dictates to his buddy all the stuff that he remembers, which is the whole book of Mormon. As a Mormon, one tithes 10% to the church, one is required to go on a mission, and I think the number of souls one can convert sort of wins a heavenly raffle, where eventually one can live on their own planet with Jesus.

    Edit: I forgot this too - Joseph Smith blazes a trail straight to the dry salty paradise of Utah, and tells everyone, "Here we are! This is it!" and proceeds to marry 70-odd wives (could have been Brigham Young I'm thinking of...)

    Edit #2: Ken Jennings is an amazing fellow.

    You actually got it down Good. He didn't misplace the page, he went against God's will- Martin Harris' wife wanted to see it, Joseph gave him the plate, and Martin's wife hid it somewhere. One is encouraged to go on a mission and is strongly advised to the boys, but obviously doesn't happen. It's not a raffle, you will go to one of 3 kingdoms, based on what you do here on earth and the second coming, and the lowest is said to be better than what's here on Earth. It was Brigham Young, and he only married 50-odd wives, even though that doesn't help much. Pretty much every one of those wives were married to him because back then, if you weren't married you basically couldn't do anything legally, so he married so they could receive land, ect. They were not "horny bastards" as Dr. House would say, it was was God's order, as we believe. It was also done in Utah to get the population growing. As we believe.

    For reals though, that episode actually had a whole lot of truth, interestingly enough.

    •  
      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeOct 25th 2007
     

    hehe, that was a good episode of House.

  19.  

    But what about all the male mormons? How were there enough wives to go around? Did anyone think ahead? It seems to be bringing back the 'alpha male' mentality that some people argue the human race worked so hard to move past. If I was a man, I'd be pissed off that some guy said it was God's order that he gets laid 50 times more than I do, or that he has 50 times more children than I do...

    Or, from another perspective, what about the female mormons? What if you were wife number 43 and got to 'visit' your husband once every two months? Why couldn't they have a harem of males? If I was a woman, I'd be thinking god made a mistake somewhere...

    And you go to heavens based on what you do? Souls=upgrade? Are you only in the club if you're mormon, or can you be a 'good person' and make it somewhere? Is there hell? I'm so confused how this thing caught on!

    (Incidentally, I think this is called an 'evangalism' opportunity - and not a single door was knocked on!)

    •  
      CommentAuthorRot Bottom
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2007
     
    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

    But what about all the male mormons? How were there enough wives to go around? Did anyone think ahead?

    Ah-ha you miss one of the great points of early Mormonism... In a nutshell, the more wives you have, the more children you can spawn, with most or at least half of them being female. The way the math works out, it's only 6 generations of cows, or 12 or so corn growing seasons, before the females are marriagable. You trade a few of your "bleedin' and breedin" age daughters to your buddy who has a few more bleedin' and breedin age daughters, and there's always more to pass around!

    An aside here - I know that may sound like I'm putting forth some stereotype, but it's a reality of American. That's how things worked until the post-WW2 era and even later outside of the massive Urban centers of the eastern states. In America in the 1800s (and in most rural places, well into the mid-1900s), it was likely that by age 15 a female had at least one child (that had survived), and if she had not by 18, she would probably die a spinster. This is fact. It held true much longer in the farm/ranch lands of America.

    Back to the point at hand, the math added up because there was tons of fuckin' going on, tons of childbearing going on, and they started the women young. Meanwhile, the men had to wait until much later in their life, as they needed to have the prosperity to support all those women and children. It takes time to gain prosperity, so the men were old (30s, 40s, later) when they were marrying their 12 and 14 year old cousins or, at best, girls from the next valley over (instead of the next farm over).

    This type of young-women marriage is not unique to Mormons, and occurred (occurs?) during the same time frame throughout the Midwest, the South, Appalachia, the forests of Central Canada, and even in the sea-faring Nor'Eastern states. Further, young-women marriage is not unique to the USA, as Blackbeard the pirate was said to have, as a wife, a "lovely young creature of twelve". Also, throughout English history, until (again) post-WW2 era, the average age of first successful child-birth is in the early to mid teens.

    Also, this type of multitudinous marriage is not unique to Mormons, as Muslims have done much the same for millenia, as have rich farming-folk in middle Europe and throughout Asia and India.

    It's only until recently, when modern medicine started keeping Europeans and Americans alive well past a natural point of existence that the myth of some sort of sanctity of the innocence of youth cropped up. If humans weren't intended to mate and have offspring at ages 12, 13, 14, why then do young girls enter menarche at the ages of 9, 10 years old? Why do males produce potent ejaculate (on average) by age 11 or 12?

    I do believe, however, we've had this argument here, long ago, on this same forum.

    Anyway, I've digressed enough and babbled endlessly. Forty virgins, or twenty whores, or one miserable old bitch, whatever to each man as he wants, so long as he harms no one who does not explicitly request it.

  21.  

    Most of what I know about mormonism comes from the show Big Love.

  22.  

    I disagree very much with the Morman religion, but I won't normally knock it. South Park really did sum it up very well for being...well, South Park, but from what I know about Mormanism, once you're in, you're in for life. I get that they really can leave if they want, but if you put all your eggs in one basket, you really don't want to drop it. It's kind of like growing up Catholic...You leave, you'll feel guilty forever, even if you don't believe in Catholicism at all.

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2007
     
    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

    But what about all the male mormons? How were there enough wives to go around? Did anyone think ahead? It seems to be bringing back the 'alpha male' mentality that some people argue the human race worked so hard to move past. If I was a man, I'd be pissed off that[del]some guy said[/del]it was God's order that he gets laid 50 times more than I do, or that he has 50 times more children than I do...

    Or, from another perspective, what about the female mormons? What if you were wife number 43 and got to 'visit' your husband once every two months? Why couldn't they have a harem of males? If I was a woman, I'd be thinking god made a mistake somewhere...

    And you go to heavens based on what you do? Souls=upgrade? Are you only in the club if you're mormon, or can you be a 'good person' and make it somewhere? Is there hell? I'm so confused how this thing caught on!

    (Incidentally, I think this is called an 'evangalism' opportunity - and not a single door was knocked on!)

    I don't know if there were more females or not, but I assume so. And not every one practiced polgamy. And you're right, women probably might of thought that way.

    You're "in the club", as you call it, if you are LDS, but if those in this life to get a chance to see the gospel, they have just as much as chance to see it in the Second Coming. You can be a good person and make it somewhere else. In a sense we don't believe in a hell, just an Outer Darkness that only a select few will go to, that us who here are Earth don't really have to worry about. There are 3 kingdoms, the highest is the Celestial Kingdom where the most righteous people will go to, the next is Terrestrial where people who have rejected the gospel but are still good people go to and the lowest is Telestial where the worst people will go to such as murders, rapists, etc. will go to. It is most likely that even Hitler will go to it.

  24.  

    I had a friend once tell me that I wasn't going to go to the Celestial Kingdom because I wasn't LDS, but I wasn't going to go to the Telestial one, either, because it wasn't my fault that my family forbid me to be Morman. I hit her. I know she was trying to be nice by telling me that I wasn't going to hell, but at the time, it sounded like she was treating me like scum.

    I like the idea of no hell, though, even if that does mean classes in the afterlife.

    •  
      CommentAuthorRot Bottom
    • CommentTimeOct 27th 2007
     

    I prefer the idea that is a Hell, Hades, the Abode of the Soul (Don't know the translation from Mayan, but that's where they went, loosely translated).

  26.  
    Posted By: tossedoffabridge

    I like the idea of no hell, though, even if that does mean classes in the afterlife.

    Yeah, I'm a fan.

    Posted By: Piggie8

    the lowest is Telestial where the worst people will go to such as murders, rapists, etc. will go to. It is most likely that even Hitler will go to it.[/p]

    Hitler was a least half of those.

    Incidentally, South Park, on one of the frequent visits to hell, says yes, the mormons were right. Take that one with a grain of salt, or not, depending on your gospel.

    But, Piggie, I suppose I wasn't enough of an asshole to have my real question answered. How the hell does a whole religion get started on what some guy said he remembers? I mean, you're all doing pretty well (aside from the door knocking bit, and Ken Jennings being an excellent ambassador) so is there something I'm missing? Angels in 1800 - tablets - lost - 'remembered' - polygamy. Odd.

  27.  

    Pulled it out of a hat...
    dumdumdumbdumdum...
    I love South Park.

    Although it wasn't directed at me...(I really shouldn't be answering, I know.)
    (and I don't mean this to sound disrespectful-just opinion)

    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

    How the hell does a whole religion get started on what some guy said he remembers?

    Think about Hitler, Charlie Manson, Bush, the government, the media, adults, peers, legends, gullifacts, etc...People need something to hang on to, and if they like what they hear, they cling to it. Let's say that someone (Joe) wrote/said that a big purple elephant came from the sky and said 'Behold! Raisins are the answer!'. Let's also say that this was during a desperate time when people really needed a God or religion or something. Joe goes around telling people that this came to him in a dream or from above and that he really believes it. Eventually, Joe tells Mark, who believes him. Now Joe AND Mark are going around telling everyone about this. Mark recruits his family, the kids (who happen to be liked at school) tell all thier friends. So right now, you have Joe, Mark, Sally, Bob, Andy, and Mellisa (Mark's wife and kids). On top of that, you have all of Sally's bridge club and the kids' friends. The friends tell their parents (back to south park...haha), who go and confront Joe, Mark, or Sally. They see that the family is very happy believing what they do, so the other families try it out. They're happy believing that The Raisin is the answer and tell all their friends/family and the process starts all over again. Lo and behold, Joe's story becomes religion.
    All you need is a time of need, a good story, and one single person to follow you.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    This reminds me of "Godless"...It's a young adult book, but it's way good and makes you think.

    EDIT: I left out the part about guilt and fear. For example, after 29 years of believing in something, you have pretty much figured out that you don't really believe it. You feel guilty because you are abandoning something that was a part of you/your family for such a long time. You could also have fear because a part of you still believes whatever. Or you could use pressure as an example of fear...:shocked:

    Anyway, Mark's family ends up believing in this and spreading it on to their kids and their kids' kids, etc. One day, little JoAnne realizes it's total bullshit: She feels guilty because she's, basically, killing a family bond. She also is afraid that her parent's won't like her, that she'll be excluded from the family, or that the Raisin or the Purple Elephant will come down from the sky and eat her even though she knows deep down they won't.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Which kind of makes me think-Is that why (some) people wake up in the middle of the night with a totally irrational fear that something is hiding in their closet?

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2007
     
    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]
    Posted By: tossedoffabridge

    I like the idea of no hell, though, even if that does mean classes in the afterlife.

    Yeah, I'm a fan.

    Posted By: Piggie8

    the lowest is Telestial where the worst people will go to such as murders, rapists, etc. will go to. It is most likely that even Hitler will go to it.

    [/p]

    Hitler was a least half of those.

    Incidentally, South Park, on one of the frequent visits to hell, says yes, the mormons were right. Take that one with a grain of salt, or not, depending on your gospel.

    But, Piggie, I suppose I wasn't enough of an asshole to have my real question answered. How the hell does a whole religion get started on what some guy said he remembers? I mean, you're all doing pretty well (aside from the door knocking bit, and Ken Jennings being an excellent ambassador) so is there something I'm missing? Angels in 1800 - tablets - lost - 'remembered' - polygamy. Odd.

    I guess there is? :neutral: I don't know exactly what you're asking. :confused: Sorry. :(

  29.  

    Of course you're right, toab, I just don't want to believe that fundamental bit of humanity. People are born to ask questions; it amazes me that questions aren't asked.

    I like Sun-Maid raisins. And the golden ones are pretty killer too.

    So, Piggie, pretty easy question - is there a hell (generally considered to be a bad place, full of blazing unmerciless fire, reeking of caustic sulfur, with the dismal sound of shrieking hopeless souls souls) in the Mormon religion?

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeOct 29th 2007
     
    Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

    So, Piggie, pretty easy question - is there a hell (generally considered to be a bad place, full of blazing unmerciless fire, reeking of caustic sulfur, with the dismal sound of shrieking hopeless souls souls) in the Mormon religion?

    Yes, but it's kind of complicated. The Second Coming comes and everyone will die (but it won't be a horrible, painful death, just "in a twinkle") and either go to Spirit Paradise, Spirit Prison and/or Hell. Those who haven't repented of their sins will spend X amount of time in Hell, which could range from 1 second to 1000 years. Once you are done serving your time there, you will go to Paradise or Prison. Otherwise, we don't, like others who believe you go to Heaven or Hell when you pass away).

  31.  

    Good to know, Piggie. Thanks for the insight.

    •  
      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2007
     
    Posted By: Piggie8

    The Second Coming comes and everyone will die (but it won't be a horrible, painful death, just "in a twinkle") and either go to Spirit Paradise, Spirit Prison and/or Hell. Those who haven't repented of their sins will spend X amount of time in Hell, which could range from 1 second to 1000 years. Once you are done serving your time there, you will go to Paradise or Prison. Otherwise, we don't, like others who believe you go to Heaven or Hell when you pass away).

    The Catholic teaching is that when you die, you go to Heaven or Hell, which are spiritual states of being, depending on how you acted in your life. Then there's the second coming, where you are judged based on how you impacted the world, and where you go for eternity is decided. At least that's how I recall, I wouldn't take my word for law on this one.

    •  
      CommentAuthorFact totum
    • CommentTimeOct 30th 2007
     

    The Roman Catholics also have purgatory.

  34.  

    ...but not divorce.

  35.  

    If it's annulled through the Church...
    But then again, the Priests get to drink, so it's all good.

    •  
      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2007
     

    Since we're talking Mormonism, I say I disagree with it as an organized religion, as I tend to disagree with all organized religions, but I do think there are some things they have right:

    For instance, why not write a Testament to the things God has done for us, his children, since the birth of Christ?

    Second, why shouldn't smoking, drinking, taking caffeine, etc. or anything else that damages our bodies be considered sins? Or (in my philosophy) foolish acts?

  37.  

    The taking caffeine thing is bullshit. Somewhere, long ago, they decided that it was wrong to drink coffee or (hot) tea, but it was perfectly okay to drink Pepsi or Hot Cocoa...
    For the views (and humor, I think) of a former Morman, read The Girl Who...

    Even if you don't want to be preached at, read it. It's fairly funny and slightly sad. The bit on mastrubation almost made me wee.

    Piggy, I really don't mean to be rude about this, at all. I was raised anti-morman, so I'm biased, but I respect that one can have such strong beliefs, and I don't mean to insult you. (If it sounds like it. If it doesn't, totally ignore me.)

    •  
      CommentAuthorRot Bottom
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     

    I'm insulted.

  39.  

    Really?

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2007
     
    Posted By: tossedoffabridge

    Piggy, I really don't mean to be rude about this, at all. I was raised anti-morman, so I'm biased, but I respect that one can have such strong beliefs, and I don't mean to insult you. (If it sounds like it. If it doesn't, totally ignore me.)

    Hey it's cool! :) I'm glad to know though so I don't going running off on you. I was raised somewhat the same about gays and other races than white. I'm trying to accept others but it's hard once you've been raised that way. So yeah, it's all good. :)

  41.  
    Posted By: Piggie8

    Hey it's cool! :) I'm glad to know though so I don't going running off on you. I was raised somewhat the same about gays and other races than white. I'm trying to accept others but it's hard once you've been raised that way. So yeah, it's all good. :)

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2007
     
    Posted By: legatissimo
    Posted By: Piggie8

    Hey it's cool! :) I'm glad to know though so I don't going running off on you. I was raised somewhat the same about gays and other races than white. I'm trying to accept others but it's hard once you've been raised that way. So yeah, it's all good. :)

    :confused: ?

  43.  

    I was just looking for an excuse to post that image...

    •  
      CommentAuthorPiggie8
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2007
     

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. :cool:

1 to 44 of 44

  1.