You should read your Bible!

(please disregard the following passages, as they'll only confuse you:

Genesis 22:1-18
Exodus 13:2
Leviticus 27:28-29
Joshua 7:15
1 Kings 13:1-2
Ezekiel 21:33-37
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:7-18
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
ESPECIALLY Deuteronomy 22:28-29 and Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Exodus 21:7-11
He didn't Really Mean It in Zechariah 14:1-2
Malachi 3:8-11
Zephaniah 3:6-10
Exodus 21:2-6
Exodus 21:20-21
Ephesians 6:5
1 Timothy 6:1-2
Leviticus 20:13
Exodus 21:15
Proverbs 20:20
Leviticus 21:9
2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
2 Kings 2:23-24
Did He really say that?! 1Samuel 6:19-20
Huh?! 2 Samuel 6:3-7
Hosea 9:11-16
Ezekiel 9:5-7
Isaiah 13:15-18 Did He Say rape children and kill infants?!
Jeremiah 48:10
Exodus 23:2
1 Kings 14:9-16 WHY?!
Jeremiah 50:21-22

THESE BLOW MY MIND (among dozens of others):
Tim 6:16 + 1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
Ex 31:17 + Is 40:28
Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22 + Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8

Tim 6:16 + 1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
RE: God dwells in..

Tim 6:16 : who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

vs.

1 Kings 8:12 : Then spake Solomon, The LORD said that He would dwell in the thick darkness

Ps 18:11 : He made darkness His secret place; His pavilion round about Him [were] dark waters [and] thick clouds of the skies.

Ps 97:2 : Clouds and darkness are round about Him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of His throne.

So Yahweh, which do you reside in? Light or Dark?

How's God feeling?
Ex 31:17 : It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

vs.

Isaiah 40:28 : Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable

God, how do you rest, when you do not become weary or tired?

Posted By: legatissimo

Please post the mind blowing passages

Done.

FYI, for more, if the subject interests you, two great websites are
nobeliefs.net and evilbible.com (www.nobeliefs.net is better, has much more slaying of infants, more rape, pillage and plunder, quite a bit more misogeny, etc)

Here's a whole consistent thread in the bible that is also a mind blower. Look a bit deep into the Bible and you find things you had no idea were there.

Good and Evil / God and Devil, as one.
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

---

Jesus said to Satan -
Luke 4:8 "And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Many Christians think that when Jesus said "Get thee behind me," he had spoken this only to Satan. Not so, apparently. Or absolutely so, apparently....
Read on.
---

The founding of the church-
Matthew 16:18 "AND I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church..."

a few chapters later...

Matthew 16:23 "But he turned, and said unto Peter. Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offence unto me. for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of man. "

Peter is the first Pope, according to Catholics (the original church, established by Jesus). Peter is the "rock" that Jesus built his church upon. However, Jesus also addressed Peter as Satan. Does this mean Satan posed as Peter, the first Pope? Was Jesus simply using crude insults against his "rock", or blatantly proclaiming that he aligned himself with his professed enemy?
----

Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, star of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

(another person's commentary on this, I merely paraphrase:) In Isaiah 14:12, St. Jerome, translated the Hebrew "morning star" into the Latin term "Lucifer" (light bearer), a name commonly ascribed to Satan by Christians, and represents the fallen star, an ancient symbol for the fallen or evil one. The mourning star actually appears as the planet Venus, the brightest "star" in the sky (but the ancients did not know about planets). Venus always appears low on the horizon, thus it looked like a fallen star (fallen angel) to the Christians.

So the morning star is Lucifer, Lucifer is Satan, correct? Good, read on.

----

Revelation 22:16 "I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Jesus tells John his verse presents the most shocking revelation in the entire Bible. On the very last page, it reveals Jesus as the "bright and morning star". In other words, Lucifer. Wait a minute! Jesus is Lucifer? And God creates Evil? WTF?!?!? ZOMFG!!

Thus, a conclusion, based on Christian beliefs of Satan, and the belief in the "inerrancy" of the Bible, one must conclude that Jesus has revealed himself as Satan!

DID I JUST BLOW YOUR MIND OR WHAT?!

Nah just on a religious bent this morning. My beliefs are founding sincerely in a few simple things...

1) Religion is a falsehood created by mankind.

2) I can accept that my reality is effected greatly by Christianity (and Islam). Perception is reality, and so Christianity and all other Judeocentric religions, although in all sense to me a falsehood, I can accept as a reality.

3) Based upon that reality, and the past several thousand years of evidence of God's will on earth as wrought by His believers, I believe God is the adversary of all mankind.

4) Hail Satan, who is the underdog. Basically, Lucifer was imprisoned in Hell for Eternity (minus 1 millenium at some point in the future) for rising against a tyrannical God who commanded atrocities against Humans. Lucifer was the friend to Man, and God the enemy, based on evidence shown in the Bible. I believe firmly that, given that Christianity is Truth, then Lucifer's domain is a fantastic and wonderful place, where freedom is the rule and intellectual review of facts as the basis of reality is the other rule.

How is it that Lucifer is so horrible? Let's see what he did...

As suggested by 1 Timothy 3:6-7 and Ezekiel 28:17, though created perfect by God (Ezekiel 28:13-15), it was conceit or pride that welled up in his heart because of his beauty and high position that led to aspirations and to his sin and finally his fall from grace.

In Isaiah 14:12-15 and in Ezekiel 28:12-19, we have an astounding account of the original place which Satan once had as "Lucifer, son of the morning." His fall from this original, exalted place, as the greatest of created angelic beings, is given in these verses. These arrogant aspirations are described for us in Isaiah 14:12-17 : pride, self-will, iniquity, rebellion, and interference in God's plans are the reasons.

These are all "sins" that I glory in, in living this life. These are the things that make life worth living! Change, growth, bettering oneself, being proud of one's accomplishments, and never being held down in subservience!

---

Because of his prideful aspirations to be like God he became God’s chief adversary (Satan is the Hebrew word for adversary). However, the Archangel Michael (which means: He Who Is Like God) is as much like God as one can be without being perfect. The difference is that Michael is subservient to God. After this assignation as adversary, Lucifer is never again called by any of the old prestigious titles he once held (like Archangel). Instead, he is called by terms that reflect his fallen character and hostility to God, like liar, murderer, Satan (adversary), the evil one, Abaddon (destruction), Apollyon (destroyer), Belial (worthless), serpent, snake, and dragon. Slander!

When Satan fell, a full third of the host of heaven (the angels) fell with him!. Although nothing definite can be known as to the precise nature of the probation of the angels and the manner in which many of them fell, many theologians have conjectured, with some influence of probability, that the mystery of the Divine Incarnation was revealed to them, that they saw that a nature lower than their own was to be united to the Person of God the Son, and that all the hierarchy of heaven must bow in adoration before the majesty of the Incarnate Word; and this, it is supposed, was the occasion of the pride of Lucifer. To summarize - supposedly, Lucifer and 1/3 of the Angels, beings that were created perfect by God, did not like the fact that God was going to pay attention to Man for a few millenia, after having spent all of Eternity before and after with them.

----

However, what do we see Lucifer doing, in reality, in the bible? Where does he appear, other than as apostate or where is he discussed other than vaguely as an enemy or adversary of some sort?

Well, one example is in the book of Job. He acts as prosecuting attorney against Job. Oddly enough, he acts as prosecuting attorney again in Psalms 109:6 and Zachariah 3:1-2. Brief cameos, these.

Where else does the Devil show up? (Incidentally, devil has it's roots in the Greek diabolos, also "adversary"). Well, he tempted Eve with the apple in the Garden of Eden. You know, the apple? They ate it, they gained self-awareness, and were no longer puppets who did nothing but procreate and evacuate waste and praise God's glory? Yeah, that apple. I think that's definitely a positive action on Satan's part.

Also, Satan makes numerous referential appearances in the bible, being referred to as the Lord, King, Ruler of the world. (Originally, greek "kosmos", or literally, the Universe. It's de-emphasized to "world" or "land" in most versions of the bible).

Satan also apparently put into the mind of Judas to betray Jesus (John 13:2). However, let's look at this a bit more deeply. If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, would Jesus have been crucified? Probably not. However, didn't God send Jesus to earth specifically to be crucified? And didn't Jesus prophecy the crucification? So did Judas have any choice in what role he played? Did Satan then put it into Judas' mind to betray Jesus, or was it perhaps God, needing a vessel to fulfill his goal and Jesus needing a vessel to fulfill his prophecy, put betrayal in the mind of Judas? Or, if it were Satan, is this not a "good" thing, in that through Jesus' crucifixion salvation was secured?

An aside at this point - Job 1:6-2:10 proclaims that Satan cannot perform any act or do anything without the explicit approval of God. It implies this, granted, not states it loudly. But Satan is apparently not able to do anything to Job without God's explicit command and approval, nor is he capable or allowed to exceed the limitations God puts upon him ("spare him his life"). Hmm...

----

Lucifer, Satan is the adversary of God. God, based upon the many, many instances of evidence in the Bible of atrocity against mankind and His display of hatred for mankind, MY KIND!, is truly the adversary of mankind. Further, it seems that aside from creating us for the simple goal of controlling us, Satan has had more positive effect on mankind than God has:
* Lucifer taught us to rebel against those who wish to control us and make us mindless slaves
* Lucifer taught us to rise up against tyranny
* Lucifer brought enlightenment and self-knowledge to mankind
* Lucifer lives much as men do, enjoying the things he does and being proud of his accomplishments - always with the goal of improving upon yesterday's performance today.
* Lucifer is nearly as powerful as God, and took a full 1/3 of the legion of Angels with him into Hell. With all this power and might, I believe that the realm of Lucifer must certainly be established in the fashion in which Lucifer desires it - in other words, since Lucifer has done so many good things for mankind, I think its logical to assume that, for those who believe in him, Lucifer has made a nice place to go in the afterlife.
* Most importantly!!! - Lucifer has not in any way committed any of these crimes against mankind, and God has: http://nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible3.htm (just read for 10 minutes, and see what you think about God afterward).

Lastly, I see great parity between the world of God and Satan described in the Bible and the world of the Tyrant and the Rebel that mankind has dwelt within for all of our civilized history. Always there are greedy, rich, powerful men trying to control the lives of the rest of us. God is that would-be controller, and I am not to be controlled.

I was actually only kidding...
But I think you use the term reality very loosely. What is perceived as reality to person A can be completely different to person B. Example: If you wear green glasses all your life without realizing you have them on, are you looking at what everybody else calls reality? You're looking at your own perception of reality, but that does not mean that what you see is reality, just what you perceive as reality.

My senses tell me that my table is hard, my keyboard is white and cheese smells cheesy. But is my table really hard, my keyboard white and cheese cheesy? My perception of what my senses tell me states that the table is hard, but if, in reality, it was soft, how would I ever know without first freeing myself of my own perception?

What you say makes sense, just used loosely IMO.

Yarlly. Anorr.

I'd say perception is relative to your own personal reality, but not a hypothetical 'real' reality that's the matrix of perceived reality.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

Here's a whole consistent thread in the bible that is also a mind blower. Look a bit deep into the Bible and you find things you had no idea were there.

Good and Evil / God and Devil, as one.
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

---

Jesus said to Satan -
Luke 4:8 "And Jesus answered and said unto him,Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Many Christians think that when Jesus said "Get thee behind me," he had spoken this only to Satan. Not so, apparently. Or absolutely so, apparently....
Read on.
---

The founding of the church-
Matthew 16:18 "AND I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church..."

a few chapters later...

Matthew 16:23 "But he turned, and said unto Peter. Get thee behind me Satan: thou art an offence unto me. for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of man. "

Peter is the first Pope, according to Catholics (the original church, established by Jesus). Peter is the "rock" that Jesus built his church upon. However, Jesus also addressed Peter as Satan. Does this mean Satan posed as Peter, the first Pope? Was Jesus simply using crude insults against his "rock", or blatantly proclaiming that he aligned himself with his professed enemy?

The first Biblical quote you described is from the temptation narrative, when Satan asked Jesus to bow down to him. If you read the first few lines before your quote from Matthew, you will discover that Peter had just suggested that Jesus give up the holy mission. Jesus responded by using a literary technique called Allusion.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, star of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

(another person's commentary on this, I merely paraphrase:) In Isaiah 14:12, St. Jerome, translated the Hebrew "morning star" into the Latin term "Lucifer" (light bearer), a name commonly ascribed to Satan by Christians, and represents the fallen star, an ancient symbol for the fallen or evil one. The mourning star actually appears as the planet Venus, the brightest "star" in the sky (but the ancients did not know about planets). Venus always appears low on the horizon, thus it looked like a fallen star (fallen angel) to the Christians.

So the morning star is Lucifer, Lucifer is Satan, correct? Good, read on.

----

Revelation 22:16 "I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

Jesus tells John his verse presents the most shocking revelation in the entire Bible. On the very last page, it reveals Jesus as the "bright and morning star". In other words, Lucifer. Wait a minute! Jesus is Lucifer? And God creates Evil? WTF?!?!? ZOMFG!!

You forget that these writings were written ~6 centuries apart, by different people, in different cultures, and translated by different people.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

As suggested by 1 Timothy 3:6-7 and Ezekiel 28:17, though created perfect by God (Ezekiel 28:13-15), it wasconceit or pridethat welled up in his heart because of hisbeauty and high positionthat led toaspirationsand to hissinand finally his fall from grace.

In Isaiah 14:12-15 and in Ezekiel 28:12-19, we have an astounding account of the original place which Satan once had as "Lucifer, son of the morning." His fall from this original, exalted place, as the greatest of created angelic beings, is given in these verses. These arrogant aspirations are described for us in Isaiah 14:12-17 :pride, self-will, iniquity, rebellion, and interference in God's plansare the reasons.

By definition, God is the greatest possible power in existence. Any attempt to believe oneself equal, or to defy God, is a form of blasphemy. Regardless of your religion.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

However, what do we see Lucifer doing, in reality, in the bible? Where does he appear, other than as apostate or where is he discussed other than vaguely as an enemy or adversary of some sort?

Lucifer is not necessarily a physical form, he could be a personification of evil.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

Where else does the Devil show up? (Incidentally, devil has it's roots in the Greek diabolos, also "adversary"). Well, he tempted Eve with the apple in the Garden of Eden. You know, the apple? They ate it, they gained self-awareness, and were no longer puppets who did nothing but procreate and evacuate waste and praise God's glory? Yeah, that apple. I think that's definitely a positive action on Satan's part

You see this from the perspective of a deeply atheistic person. Upon eating the apple, mankind gained the power to do good as well as evil. Do you disagree that the world would be a better place if man did not have the capacity to do evil?

Posted By: Rot Bottom

Lucifer, Satan is the adversary of God. God, based upon the many, many instances of evidence in the Bible of atrocity against mankind and His display of hatred for mankind, MY KIND!, is truly the adversary of mankind. Further, it seems that aside from creating us for the simple goal of controlling us, Satan has had more positive effect on mankind than God has:
* Lucifer taught us to rebel against those who wish to control us and make us mindless slaves
* Lucifer taught us to rise up against tyranny
* Lucifer brought enlightenment and self-knowledge to mankind
* Lucifer lives much as men do, enjoying the things he does and being proud of his accomplishments - always with the goal of improving upon yesterday's performance today.
* Lucifer is nearly as powerful as God, and took a full 1/3 of the legion of Angels with him into Hell. With all this power and might, I believe that the realm of Lucifer must certainly be established in the fashion in which Lucifer desires it - in other words, since Lucifer has done so many good things for mankind, I think its logical to assume that, for those who believe in him, Lucifer has made a nice place to go in the afterlife.
* Most importantly!!! - Lucifer has not in any way committed any of these crimes against mankind, and God has:http://nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible3.htm(just read for 10 minutes, and see what you think about God afterward).

Once again, you forget that by definition God is the absolute power, and none other are greater. You put a spin on these statements, and personify God as human, and we believe humans are inherently equal. This "tyranny" and "desire to make us mindless slaves" is the equivalent of humans controlling cattle and domestic animals. It is not wrong because we are above them, because we have the ability to use our intellect.

Posted By: cmseagle

Note: After glancing over a few of your other verses, they are quite scandalous. If taken out of context. You cannot read the Bible, or any book, one verse at a time. Anything can be made to look contradictory if taken out of context.

That's very contradictory, you know.

Ok pwnage time Mfer!!
First, what is cold?
The absence of heat.
What is darkness?
The absence of light?
What is evil?
The absence of God in a man's heart.
This statement was made by Albert Einstein in an argument with his professor. After Albert responded with what evil was, his professor sat down and didn't teach for the rest of the day.
Another thing, if people believe their is no God and that after they die, they cease to exist, what is the harm of believing in something? Suppose their really is a God, and you decided to believe in him. You made the right decision in the end! It's better than believing in nothing and finding out you have reservation in the pits of hell!
Another thing, in the Old Testament, the law was love thy neighbor and hate thy enemy. So, God said it was O.K. to wage war with an enemy God approved. But later, Jesus proclaims to love thy enemy and neighbor. So when you (Rot Bottom) state that God approves war, he did... but that was thousands of years ago in the days of Solomon. (Refer to Matthew 5:43-48 for my authenticity).

Posted By: Trance

I think analysis of the Bible is pointless. A 2,000 year old book with that much influence is bound to have been heavily edited by humans. However the bare morals exist (see: 10 cmmndmnts)

Calling the Bible pointless might be a little harsh, but I do see where you're coming from.

Posted By: Trance

To say that, you'd have to believe in every religion, since they could all be right.

That depends on whether or not God discriminates against other religions. I am of the opinion that any form of worshiping God, as long as it is reverent, is acceptable.

Posted By: Trance

Plus, living a life full of sham religion and lying to everybody won't balance against not lying and being a good atheist.
Atheists are people too! in Mark's Gospel Jesus says he loves all his brothers, no matter what they believe, as long as they are good to their brethren.

I agree with you when you say that being a full of crap believer doesn't balance out being a kind atheist, but I'm not sure if being a good atheist is enough to get into heaven. Then again, it isn't really out call to make.

Yes, but the question comes into play, does being good to humankind balance out almost blaspheming God?

No, it doesn't. I can only explain it like this:
You're a good person, an atheist, but overall you're cheerful, friendly, and helpful.
You decide to go to Africa to help out the natives with malaria vaccinations and while you do so, you come to realize that these people know nothing about Christ (just an example). So you decide, before missionaries come in, to tell them that Jesus is a phony. Since you are helping them out, and Christians are your enemy, Jesus must be evil. About a month after you leave, the missionaries come to spread the love of Christ. When they hear the Ten Commandments, they assume they must do the opposite. So, in the end, 30 good, kind people are slaughtered because you slandered Christ.
Edit: Replying to cmseagle's post.

Posted By: Trance

I don't see why blasphemy is so bad...

It was enough to get Jesus crucified.

Scan it to your computer, host it on photobucket, and use the img tags.

Posted By: Paulustrious

A document written by many people that displays their interpretation (and probably exaggeration) of their beliefs will hold many inconsistencies. The bible (pardon this) is not gospel.

Exactly, and when reading the Bible, one has to remember that it was written for those who were far less educated than we are today, and the stories were simplified as to get the point across.

Posted By: Paulustrious

The bible (pardon this) is not gospel.

That actually made me laugh

Posted By: Paulustrious

However, the church has being twisting itself in circles for three hundred years (cf. the American constitution) trying to adapt new realities and knowledge into a document that is showing its age. Intelligent design is the latest get-out-of-jail card that will eventually seen to be as flawed as the literal Genesis explanation of creation.

I'm not sure that it's so incredibly flawed. Of course, the truth of the matter will always be debated, but it is logical (as far as creation theories go) that some God somewhere used natural law as an instrument for creation.

Thank you all for the hearty conversation.

The first point I'd like to make is this -

Posted By: cmseagle

You see this from the perspective of a deeply atheistic person.

I'm far from an atheist. I summed up my belief stance very succinctly, I thought, a few posts into this thread. I am not an atheist. I am a Satanist, and not the kind that sprang up in the 70s (although heavily influenced by those Satanists)

The very purpose of this thread (and if you go back and read the passages in the original post, you'll see the exact validation of it), is to point out that while God is supposedly good and benevolent, he has bestowed a phenomenal amount of misery, rape, torture, murder, bloodshed and ***countless*** other atrocities upon humankind, while Satan is supposedly the bane of all that is good, and yet has in effect done nothing malicious to mankind whatsoever - except during the trials of Job, when he was commanded to commit those malicious acts by God himself.

To me, any Christian who has read the bible (actually READ THE BIBLE, not just memorized John 3:16 and knows most of the Our Father) who still loves God is much like a dog that bites the hand that feeds them, then returns home to love a master who kicks and beats them. No I'm not calling you Christians who love your god dogs. Talk about taking things out of context!

Posted By: cmseagle

You forget that these writings were written ~6 centuries apart, by different people, in different cultures, and translated by different people.

Posted By: Trance

I think analysis of the Bible is pointless. A 2,000 year old book with that much influence is bound to have been heavily edited by humans. However the bare morals exist

So how does one know which parts are made up by humans and which are The Word of God? In it's very nature, the bible is the document of (the Israelite strain of) Mankind's interactions with God written by man, but supposedly are also the very word of God. If mankind is fallible and God is infallible, how do you discern which parts you should take with a grain of salt, and which parts of scripture will send your soul to eternal hell for doubting? Is that not the punishment set forth for those who deny the word of God as Truth? And is not the bible the literal Word of God?

How do you justify believing parts of the bible and not other parts? Or do you just believe the parts that make God great and the other 80%+ of the bible is fodder?

Further, any document that has had such a profound and malignant effect on human history over the past 2,000 years especially, but documents the atrocities against mankind by God for the previous ~4,000 years must be analyzed! What if these things are cyclical for God, and in fact they are if Revelations is to be agreed, and the last 2,000 years have been God taking a nap - he's going to come back and commit another ~4,000 years of atrocity upon mankind! We should be forewarned, that's all I'm saying.

Posted By: cmseagle

Yes, but the question comes into play, does being good to humankind balance out almost blaspheming God?

Here is what I don't like about God. He's a selfish, jealous, self-righteous prick.

The first and foremost commandment is "Thou shalt have no god before me". Number two (or part two of number one if you're Catholic or Protestant) "You shall not worship false idols" Number three, "Thou shalt not misuse the Lord's name", number four, "Keep holy the Sabbath".

40% of the Commandments revolve around the following concept: "I'm important, I'm more important than anything else, Nothing shall be more important than me, you must set aside a day specifically to remember how great and good I am".

No, "Hey you're great too", no "Keep holy the Sabbath, unless you've got a thing, you know". It's pretty silly.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

So how does one know which parts are made up by humans and which are The Word of God?

You can't... That's the point.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

Here is what I don't like about God. He's a selfish, jealous, self-righteous prick.

If you acknowledge what I've said about the Bible potentially being false, how can you make such a bold statement like that? From where I'm standing, you're basing that on what the Bible tells you, and you're quite right to do so since you'd struggle to find anything else worth basing it upon, however I still don't see it as a reliable source of the word of God.

Posted By: Rot Bottom

No, "Hey you're great too", no "Keep holy the Sabbath, unless you've got a thing, you know". It's pretty silly.

God created man in his own image...

Posted By: Rot Bottom

I cannot tell you how important it is for you to read the Bible thoroughly to have this discussion intelligently. If not the whole thing, go grab your Bible and spend an hour or two reading and understanding the sections I posted in the first post. Please? For the safety of your soul!

I don't have a Bible, but if I did, I'd read it.
Still, I'll try and contribute as much as I can...

(Hang on a tick: 'have this discussion intelligently?' Have I been having it unintelligently?)

I know... I was kidding... Again.

Posted By: cmseagle

From this statement, I can see that you yourself have clearly not read the Bible. There is no case of God randomly punishing humans as you would insinuate.

The book of Job comes to mind. Or were you considering that there was a "point" to all that, and therefore it was not random at all, although Job would have seen it that way until the end?

Posted By: Rot Bottom

How do you justify believing parts of the bible and not other parts? Or do you just believe the parts that make God great and the other 80%+ of the bible is fodder?

(I didn't see this part before - not sure why since I read the whole post)

Personally, I think it's easy to justify 'believing' only parts of the Bible. I've only ever read Mark's Gospel, but the underlying message is embedded into the words, it's not hard to see: 'Be good!' The whole purpose of the Bible is to spread the word of God, since God is good, just be good! Can't go wrong there.

If I write a book now, that's influential enough to last 2,000 years, then go forward in time 2,000 years, I would expect that the book has been phenomenally changed, so a reader born in that era would not receive the same message I intended to put in the book.

Posted By: Trance

'Be good!

You mean, be good and eat shit.

Also, if you'd like I can move into all the other contents of the Bible that never get mentioned, such as this happy misogynistic little snippet, from I Timothy: "Let the women learn in silence with all subjection." Yes, you female Christians, remember - you are to learn in silence, with all subjection. That means: You're a slave and no backtalk, because your ideas are worthless. (Praise be to Yahweh, merciful Father!)

Further, I doubt I will change anyone's opinions. However, I did really just want to spark some good conversation (which it seems to have!), force myself into some intellectual challenges, and to maybe open the eyes further of those who are not blinded by their "faith".