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To everyone - but especially cmseagle and Rot Bottom. I do not have enough knowledge to discuss the bible. I have little interest in it. Jehovah's witnesses call occasionally and tell me that my decision to believe or disbelieve in the bible/god is the most important one I will ever make.
I have no belief in god. But if one exists I find it highly improbable that I would be judged on my belief of an omnipotent being and adhering to an ancient text. I judge people by what they do and not what they say. I suspect omnipotent beings would adopt a similar philosophy. I now retire from the debate to watch an adversarial battle, one that I believe has lead to much heartache in the past.
Posted By: PaulustriousI have no belief in god. But if one exists I find it highly improbable that I would be judged on my belief of an omnipotent being and adhering to an ancient text.
I agree with you there, God does not judge us on how many times we read the Bible, and how much we know about it. Nevertheless, I believe that the Bible is inspired by a divine being, and that its message is basically true.
The only part of this thread that starts to get me riled up is when the basic message/intention of God is looked down upon. All other times when I correct details, I am only trying to explain things, and make them clearer.
Posted By: cmseagleAs you may know, the Pharoah refused to release the chosen people. It is generally believed that it was a plague which contaminated the meat, which Egyptians ate, and Israelites did not. (being slaves)
Then why, as the bible passages state, do the Israelite slaves and servants also lose their firstborn?
And what do you mean it was a plague? God did it. The bible tells you so. In my opinion, it's ridiculous to believe the garbage in the bible about a higher being, creation, etc., but it's even more ridiculous to believe chunks of it and decry others as allegory or a mistaken understanding of the world by primitives.
Posted By: cmseaglees, at the time this was written, ~700 BC, Blasphemy was the highest of sins, and turning away from God was a form of this. Even in polytheistic cultures, turning away from the Gods was punishable by death.
and
Posted By: cmseagleIf you read Ezekiel 9: 1-4 and 9:7-10, you'll realize that God was ordering the destruction of those who are practicing "abominations" within. Also, God was not ordering the destruction of the old and young etc. as your bible tidbit would have us believe, but those who are blaspheming INCLUDING the old and the
young, for they have infested his temple.
Ohhhh - so long as there's justification, it's ok to murder infants and children. That's what being a good Christian is about! Thanks for the clarification!
I would argue that 2700 years ago standards were different. Also, our society still allows the murder of infants. It's callde abortion.
Posted By: Rot BottomPosted By: cmseagleAs you may know, the Pharoah refused to release the chosen people. It isgenerally believed that it was a plague which contaminated the meat, which Egyptians ate, and Israelites did not. (being slaves)
Then why, as the bible passages state, do the Israelite slaves and servants also lose their firstborn?
And what do you mean it was a plague? God did it. The bible tells you so. In my opinion, it's ridiculous to believe the garbage in the bible about a higher being, creation, etc., but it's even more ridiculous to believe chunks of it and decry others as allegory or a mistaken understanding of the world by primitives.
First off, the Israelites did NOT lose their firstborn, because, literally, they smeared the blood of the lamb on their doorposts. Saying plague was a poor choice of words, I meant to say disease. However, it is entirely likely that the reason the Egyptian firstborn died was because of eating contaminated meat. Let me explain the Ten Plagues in a believable fashion.
1. (Exodus 7:14-25) rivers and other water sources turned to blood - Iron deposits in the banks of the Nile periodically become exposed to the water, they rust, and the water turns a reddish color. This phenomenon has been observed in modern society.
2. (Exodus 7:26-8:11) amphibians (commonly believed to be frogs) - Water rusty, frogs come out.
3. (Exodus 8:12-15) gnats ('Kinim') - Gnats breed on dead frogs.
4. (Exodus 8:16-28) Flies/Mosquitoes - Breed on dead frogs
5. (Exodus 9:1-7) disease on livestock - livestock bit by mosquitoes/flies, become sick.
6. (Exodus 9:8-12) boils ('Shkhin') - Mosquitoes bite humans
7. (Exodus 9:13-35) hail - It sometimes hails in the desert, and when it does, it hails HARD.
8. (Exodus 10:1-20) locusts ('Arbeh') - It is recorded that the locusts come every so often in that part of the world.
9. (Exodus 10:21-29) darkness ('Choshech') - Eclipse
10. (Exodus 11:1-12:36) death of the firstborn - Egyptians eat contaminated meat, the weaker (youngest) die.
Posted By: Rot BottomAnd what do you mean it was a plague? God did it. The bible tells you so. In my opinion, it's ridiculous to believe the garbage in the bible about a higher being, creation, etc., but it's even more ridiculous to believe chunks of it and decry others as allegory or a mistaken understanding of the world by primitives.
When have I shown such inconsistencies?
Posted By: cmseagleAlso, our society still allows the murder of infants. It's callde abortion.
in·fant /ˈɪnfənt/ [in-fuhnt] –noun
1. a child during the earliest period of its life, esp. before he or she can walk; baby.
fe·tus (fē'təs) - noun
1. The unborn young of a viviparous vertebrate having a basic structural resemblance to the adult animal.
2. In humans, the unborn young from the end of the eighth week [/b]after conception to the moment of birth[/b], as distinguished from the earlier embryo.
Abortion involves fetuses. Not infants or babies or young or children. Fetuses.
Posted By: cmseaglePosted By: Rot BottomAnd what do you mean it was a plague? God did it. The bible tells you so. In my opinion, it's ridiculous to believe the garbage in the bible about a higher being, creation, etc., but it's even more ridiculous to believe chunks of it and decry others as allegory or a mistaken understanding of the world by primitives.
When have I shown such inconsistencies?
You have shown such inconsistencies by insisting the creation myth is truth, by insisting you are a Christian, followed by the post which I quoted in this post.
Christian is a general term. Some Christians believe that the Bible is word-for-word true, others do not. Those who believe it is word for word true are called fundamentalists. I am certainly not a fundamentalist.
Posted By: cmseagleI would argue that 2700 years ago standards were different.
God's standards were different?
You see, right there is where religion loses me. How can the standards of God change over time? God is supposed to be timeless. If using condoms is contrary to the will of God, how can that change?
No, only the people who claim they represent the word of God change.
I should've been clearer:
What I should've said was that 2700 years ago people would not be shocked by the murder of blaspheming/atrocity committing women and children, because religion was at the forefront of society, and cursing your god was the most serious of crimes. Therefore, the writer of the Bible had no qualms about portraying the will of God as to kill those who were seriously sinning, if that is what it took to get the point across.
Posted By: Udoboyonly the people who claim they represent the word of God change.
I concur
Posted By: PaulustriousTo everyone - but especially cmseagle and Rot Bottom. I do not have enough knowledge to discuss the bible. I have little interest in it. Jehovah's witnesses call occasionally and tell me that my decision to believe or disbelieve in the bible/god is the most important one I will ever make.
Just say your Catholic and they'll leave.
On to Satan.
Satan is an angel, as we should all know, and he descended into Hell with all of the other renegade angels.
First Common Mistake:
Satan and his demons torture you in Hell.
Truth: Satan and his demons are suffering with you.
When Satan is able to walk Earth (which is becoming more frequent nowadays), he does not cause trouble directly. He uses other people and objects to tempt and hurt you. A good example is Rot Bottom.
Satan will eventually be given the Earth, and will rule until Jesus returns. Why? I'm too lazy to figure out why so you'll have to look it up yourself.
Posted By: Cody56A good example is Rot Bottom.
Thank you.
Posted By: Cody56Why? I'm too lazy to figure out why so you'll have to look it up yourself.
No looking it up here: There is no explicitly stated answer to "why does God turn over Earth to Lucifer?" anywhere in the bible. The entire book of Revelations (when this occurs) is a vision given to John by Jesus. Although he sees all these crazy things (most of which don't make sense at all), there's no reasons given as to why they are occurring.
Quick question though, for those who have belief that Lucifer (Satan, the Dragon, the Serpent) will be given the Earth to rule in some malicious way until Jesus comes down and saves us from the Dragon - Without looking it up at all, how long is the rule of Satan supposed to last?
You guys take things too literal.
Posted By: Rot BottomPosted By: Cody56A good example is Rot Bottom.
Thank you.
GAH! The taken-out-of-context-ness of this situation makes my eyes bleed!
Posted By: Rot Bottomthere's no reasons given as to why they are occurring.
I would think human nature, I believe in some other thread, I believe the Fate of Humanity thread, we decided that we are rolling downhill as a species.
Posted By: Rot BottomWithout looking it up at all, how long is the rule of Satan supposed to last?
The only answer for that will be some literal interpretation, and thus semi-useless.
Posted By: Cody56Posted By: PaulustriousTo everyone - but especially cmseagle and Rot Bottom. I do not have enough knowledge to discuss the bible. I have little interest in it. Jehovah's witnesses call occasionally and tell me that my decision to believe or disbelieve in the bible/god is the most important one I will ever make.
Just say your Catholic and they'll leave.
Or tell them you have to close the door before the sacrificial goat gets out.
Posted By: cmseaglePosted By: Rot BottomWithout looking it up at all, how long is the rule of Satan supposed to last?
The only answer for that will be some literal interpretation, and thus semi-useless.
The bible literally says 42 months.
Well that number has a certain amount of sense.
If it says, 42, the Bible must indeed be true.
I'm fairly certain the book is called "The Revelation" and not Revelations.
Anyway, all that people claim contradicts the idea of a fun-loving and adorable God occur because Adam and Eve defied the will of God in the Garden of Eden.
THAT happened because Lucifer decided that he was equal to God, when indeed he was merely one of the Angels, and led the revolt in Heaven.
Actually, the book is called "The Revelation According to John", or "The Revelation to John". But it is colloquially referred to as "The book of Revelations"
"42" has the first 2 digits of "420". Coincidence?
Numerologically speaking, 42 = 4+2=6, and appears three times in the bible. 666