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    • CommentAuthorNeil
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2006
     

    The color yellow is in actuality a retinal processing error of colors that our rod receptors cannot distinguish.

    Is there any web article that confirms this or anywhere at that? I cannot seem to find the proof here.

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2006
     

    I don't know who posted that fact, but I do recall learning as much during my physio-phychology work at Cornell University. I believe that this is the classic paper on the subject, but I took a quick read, and a bit of the information on the second page has since been refuted by more recent experiments.
    "Opponent Color Space Motivated by Retinal Processing" by Borer and Süsstrunk
    http://ivrgwww.epfl.ch/publications/bs02.pdf

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      CommentAuthorclever
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2006
     

    if that is true there is another color out there. Who could have discovered this because whenever they went to look at the results they would show up yellow not some illusion of the eye .I believe this is false although I could be wrong
    (\_/)
    (O.o)
    (> <)

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2006
     

    One of the ways is to use digital electronics grafted onto the optic nerve of various animals and displayed onto a screen for the scientists to see in it's "raw" form.

    However, the paper mentioned in the above posting is much more insightful.

    • CommentAuthorLogolept
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2006 edited
     

    Aren't all colors (other than white and black) just different wavelengths entering the retina? I am only in 9th grade, so I probably don't know as much about this as slayton, but what I've been taught so far has been that colors are different wavelengths entering the eye. Black is lack of waves and white is... something... all of them. I did an experiment once on white. If you shine all three primary colors (blue,yellow, and red) onto one spot, it appears white.

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2006
     

    Kandal's Advanced Neurobiology is a typical undergraduate textbook, which simplifies much of the interesting research for which there is no good theory to back up yet. This is one of those examples. I would assume that your advisor and/or professors would be able to give you the background of this interesting and subtle fact.

  1.  

    Actualy black is all the wavelengths and white is a lack of them. The darker the color the more wavelengths, but yes yellow is a processing error because no combination of wavelengths could actually form the color yellow. Although it is true that there is in fact one non discovered color that our eyes misinterpret as yellow, it is insignificant because our eyes will never be able to see that color.

  2.  

    "Actualy black is all the wavelengths and white is a lack of them"

    Shouldn't that be the other way around?

  3.  

    no

  4.  

    Light works sort of the opposite way that paint does. It's pretty strange to think about if you're not really familiar with the concepts.

    • CommentAuthorhomme
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2006
     

    nowhere man - you're incorrect.

    "Black" reflects the fewest wavelengths, while "White" reflects the most. It's one of the reasons black objects get hotter than white objects in the sun.

    You're confusing additive colour theory (paint), with subtractive colour theory (light).

    • CommentAuthornaceguy122
    • CommentTimeMay 16th 2006
     

    for all we know it could be that we all see every color different. what i see as red, someone else may see as green, but we'd never know because we are taught the colors as they were named.

    i'm just saying that even if yellow isn't yellow, we aren't at all effected

    • CommentAuthorSk0pe
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2006
     

    Homme, you're half right.

    White is all wavelengths, black is zero wavelengths. However, paint/printing is referred to as "subtractive color theory", while emitted light is "additive".

    You see a certain colour of paint or ink because it only reflects that wavelength of light, absorbing (or "subtracting") all the other wavelengths.

    You see a certain colour on your monitor because your monitor "adds" the relevant amounts of RGB to create that overall colour.

    • CommentAuthoraf1733
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2006
     

    An easy way to think of it is this.

    Black is the absence of all colors. White is the presence of all colors.

    You know a material will absorb every color but itself. This is why when you look at a red car, it appears red. It has absorbed every wavelength except that of the color red, which is being reflected back at you.

    In that same train of thought, a black piece of paper is absorbing none of the color wavelengths, and what is reflected back is every color in the spectrum, and as you learned in kindergarten, if you mix all the colors in the paint set, you get black.

    If that last paragraph seems odd, and you say that since the black piece of paper is reflecting all the colors, it must have all the colors in it, remember; the paper is reflecting all the colors, meaning that none of them are present in the paper itself. None were absorbed. Hence, the color black is the absence of all colors.

  5.  

    does anyone know how gendale fits into all of this?

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2006
     

    My theory is that the light spectra that is visible to humans is incomplete because our color-detecting rods and cones do not cover the spectra evenly, and thus, there may be one or more gaps within the visible specta. For example, a color between yellow and green that is just unable to be viewed by us. When Timothy Leary (and others) were able to see gendale, they were either perceiving these gaps, possibly because the function of their eyes had been perturbed enough to allow its detection.

    But that's just my hunch...

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2006
     

    af1733,

    Something that is black is absorbing all the colors, and reflects none. That is why it appears black: no (visible) wavelengths. That is also why black items are hotter in direct sunlight: they are absorbing all the radiation. Your theory was spot-on until you tried to discuss black.

    • CommentAuthoraf1733
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2006
     

    You're right, Udoboy, I got that backwards. Black absorbs all colors, and white reflects them.

    • CommentAuthorGummo97
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2006
     

    Ok...White light contains all the colours within the spectral range of light. That is if you wish to have a blue light emanating from a white light source, you can filter out the frequencies that produce the other colours and you will be left with a blue light. This process has been used in virtually every conventional theatrical lantern for the last 150 years. The power of the light will be reduced by the process, in the case of a Sky Blue, by around 10% but in the case of a very very deep blue you can lose around 75% of the original light source power. The current trend in lanterns a the moment, is to use 3 coloured LEDs to produce the different colours, however this process is in its infancy for theatrical purposes as the throw of the light is quite weak. Though in arcitectural uses this process is gaining momentum.

    In paint it is the reverse of that process, ie black absorbs all frequencies and white reflects them. And a colour can be given a wavelength attribute based where in the wavelength spectrum the reflection AND abosorbtion occur.

    All the above means that correctly speaking neither black nor white are colours as they do not both reflect AND absorb. Black is merely the absence of all light, and I doubt that many people have truely seen that.

    The below link is to a website who provide filters for Lanterns and the wavelengths and balances for different colours can be seen there, and yes yellow exists and it not a retinal error, it is there within the spectrum using the correct balance of wavelengths.
    http://www.leefilters.com/LPFD.asp?PageID=290

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2006
     

    I don't think you understand what "retinal processing error" means. It means that we, as humans, see something other than what is actually there.

    For instance, I have a retinal processing error with indigo. I cannot see it; I always see dark blue instead. For some reason.

    Now look at that page you linked to again. Doesn't it seem even the slightest bit odd that yellow is so much brighter than the other colors? That's the retinal processing error. We're not seeing "true yellow" but something else, and calling it yellow.

    It's really hard to explain; like gendale.

    • CommentAuthorGummo97
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2006
     

    I understand what you are saying, yet, if we all percieve this colour that we call yellow in the same way, and it exists within the colour spectrum available to us from white light, then it is by definition a colour called yellow. Who is to say that we perceive colours correctly, it can not be an error if it exists within the colour spectrum, it is really there and that is how we see it, for example for you indigo does not exist, you have no concept of it, so for you indigo is not in your available spectrum. But yellow is in mine. If I defract white light I see yellow clear as day, it is clearly yellow, it is what I understand yellow to be. If the whole world processed indigo like yourself then it wouldn't cease to exist we just would not have a name for it.

    Nomeclatures are merely a human way of passing on understanding and if we all under and percieve yellow as a colour then by default it is. That doesnt mean that we are right, but that is how we percieve it and it makes sense that if there is a common perception then it is given a name so that we can pass it on.

    I only know that blue is thue called because I was taught it by someone once, and I elected to use that tag myself, because if I decided to call it anything else it would lead to more confusion. There is very clearerly a colour within the spectrum at the wavelengths that yellow occupies and whether or not we perceive it correctly or not it is a common perception shared by most if not all the world. Accordingly we call that colour yellow, wether we percieve it correctly or not. We perceive and understand it as our mind want us to. This colour will always be called Yellow, If we evolve and percieve it in a different way then a new name will be allocated to the colour.

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      CommentAuthorIllnab1024
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2006 edited
     

    This is not a matter of what it being called; it is a matter of what we see compared to the real thing. The colour yellow is a retinal processing error, for what we image in our brain is different from the light that is reflected into our eyes. So the actual part of the spectrum we percieve yellow is a colour that noone has ever actually seen. Nobody can describe this colour. We only know that the colour we see as yellow is not in any combination of the spectrum.

    • CommentAuthorQuirk
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2006
     

    pure black having no light reflected off it is invissible to the human eye what we see as black is no more than a unknown area witch our brain processes into the colour we see.

    HA :wink:

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2006
     

    Gummo, what you're saying is that because we have a name for it, there can't be an error.

    That's like saying that Post-It notes weren't created by error because they're useful. They were. Just we, as Man, learn from our errors and sometimes make good use of them.

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      CommentAuthorAthene
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2006
     

    Exactly. If I am taught from birth that a dog is a "fish", for example, that doesn't make it any less a canoid mammal. That just means that my perception, or knowledge processing, if you will, is flawed in some way - in this case intentionally by whomever taught me that a being with four legs, a tail and that barks is called a "fish". The dog itself doesn't change, but my understanding of it would. If we were ever to be able to perceive what we know as "yellow" without the accompanying retinal processing error, we might at first believe it to be a new color, perhaps even the elusive "gendale" discovered by Timothy Leary, but given time and experimentation, we would find it to occupy the spot on the spectrum that we know as "yellow" and adjust our perceptions accordingly.

  6.  

    hmm. rod cells measure light/dark. *cone* cells measure color.
    so is this telling me that the fully well know cells which measure light/dark also tells us what "yellow" looks like??

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2007
     

    No, a brain reaction to the information coming from the rod cells creates a "color" response that should not be there. For instance, when you are in a dark room, with nothing but a red light, will see things as black, white, grey, red or orange. You should not see the orange, but there it is.

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      CommentAuthorcritdragon
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2007
     

    you don't always see orange do you??

  7.  

    Maybe there are people in the world who see yellow for what it really is but since they are taught that it is yellow they don't know that others see it as something different.

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      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2007
     

    How can I be sure that what I see as yellow, you don't see a colour I would perceive as black?

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      CommentAuthornyarfdude
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2007
     

    Whoa... Because maybe the words we use to describe them are different, which is how we distinguish any color from another (light vs. dark). Wait a minute... Maybe the words light and dark actually mean different things to different people. Maybe the scientists are all wrong and each person has their own individual set of colors! What an interesting concept!

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      CommentAuthorAzeul
    • CommentTimeJan 29th 2007
     

    Only people with irregular eyes would perceive colours differently. We aren't all different species.

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      CommentAuthornyarfdude
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2007
     

    Good point.

    •  
      CommentAuthorno_truth
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: Udoboy

    For instance, when you are in a dark room, with nothing but a red light, will see things as black, white, grey, red or orange. You should not see the orange, but there it is.

    nothing would be white... if you shine red light onto anything that isnt red, it looks black. if you shine red light onto and orange object it will look red, as it is only able to reflect the red light.

    And surely, if we can measure the wavelength of yellow light on the electromagnetic spectrum, then its possible to see yellow light? If we are looking at light of that wavelength, and it looks yellow, then surely... its yellow?!

    Anyway. those are my thoughts.

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      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: nyarfdude

    Whoa... Because maybe the words we use to describe them are different, which is how we distinguish any color from another (light vs. dark). Wait a minute... Maybe the words light and dark actually mean different things to different people. Maybe the scientists are all wrong and each person has their own individual set of colors! What an interesting concept!

    That's sort of the concept I was implying, forgot the names for the colours, I was implying where I see yellow, you might see what I would call green. And where I see green, you would see yellow, If that was the case, how would we ever know?

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      CommentAuthornyarfdude
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2007
     

    As Azeul said, we all are the same species. However, we all look different, don't we?, so who's to say that we don't see differently, too?

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      CommentAuthorcritdragon
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2007
     

    basically, there is variation within us all which makes us all different and this would include sight. also, people's site could change for other reasons (like having your eye poked out by a small stick)

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      CommentAuthoreasyEmu
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2007
     

    Legatissimo: Yellow is a human perversion of Gendale. If our eyes were not in err, then we could see Yellow for the true color it is; Gendale. It takes some really good LSD to correct human vision, so that we interpret Gendale properly.

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      CommentAuthorWrong
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2007
     

    Just so you all can rest at night, two of the smartest technicians at my work are searching the internet far and wide for information on Gendale. I told them about the Popular Science article.

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      CommentAuthorFact totum
    • CommentTimeFeb 5th 2007
     

    The new Riders of the Purple Sage were friends with Tomothy Leary. Their famous song was originally had the lyric (and title) "Somebody Robbed the Gendale Train" and it referred to the color of the train and not the destination or origin. Their record label made them change the word to "Glendale" when they learned the origin of "Gendale"