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    • CommentAuthornicaboker
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    Not sure if this has been discussed or not thus far so here it goes:

    Anti-Gravity, is it possible? Furthermore, what exactly creates gravity, is it the rotation of the Earth and the rotation of other bodies in the galaxy, or is it some other force?

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      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    I create gravity, and sell it to nations that want it at low, low prices.

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      CommentAuthorTwinch
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    I create my own gravity too but that's because I'm the size of a small planet!

    I don't think that the force that holds us on Earth is gravity I just think the Earth sucks.

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      CommentAuthorPaulustrious
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007 edited
     

    1) Gravity is the attraction between any two masses in the Universe. In terms of how we experience the world there is no effect from rotation.

    2) Gravity is one of four 'forces' that exist between particles.

    3) Current research has not yet delivered two pieces of positive matter that repel each other due to an anti-gravity effect.

    4) Anti-gravity is nestled between acceptable science and abduction by aliens.

    ps: Area 51 speculators say the 'next' US bomber will use anti-grav.

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      CommentAuthorFact totum
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    I've read that there are only about 6 people on Earth who really understand gravity. I don't know who is the arbiter of who understands it and who doesn't.

    I think one of the ways gravity is described is that it's a wrinkle or a depression in the space-time continuum caused by the mass of an object.

    • CommentAuthorCaseLogic
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    To say that rotation has no effect on gravity is correct, however, the faster the earth spins, the more our outward acceleration effects our "observed" force of gravity. Since we are on the outer edge of a rotating body, we are accelerating away from the center. Considering our slow speed of rotation and the large distance from the center of the earth, this effect is minimal. I think that an average person (150 lbf or so) weighs about a half pound less than they would if the earth was not rotating.

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      CommentAuthorPaulustrious
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007 edited
     

    I presume you mean at the equator. I hadn't realised it was that much. It's a long time since I did that centripetal acceleration stuff, F = -mω2r .

    (2.π / 24 / 3600)2 . 4000 . 5180 = the centripetal acceleration = .11

    Compared to the gravitational constant (32) we get .11 / 32 * 100 = .34%

    Yup - half a pound give or take a few shillings.

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      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    I was just about to say that...:ninja:

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      CommentAuthorPaulustrious
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007 edited
     

    I'm sure you were, Shifty.

    That's why doctor's scales work on a balance principle, these are not affected like a spring / pressure based system by rotation, spherical ablation and altitude.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     
    Posted By: Fact totum

    I've read that there are only about 6 people on Earth whoreallyunderstand gravity. I don't know who is the arbiter of who understands it and who doesn't.

    I think one of the ways gravity is described is that it's a wrinkle or a depression in the space-time continuum caused by the mass of an object.

    It's more like a stretching of the space-time continuum, so that if one takes a "base grid" out in the middle of space with no masses nearby, they would travel at a certain rate. As they approach a massy body, the stretching of space makes the rate of travel increase. (IE, for the same time, you're moving across lines in the grid at the same rate, but the lines in the grid are further apart, so you're moving, technically, farther.)

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      CommentAuthorPaulustrious
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007 edited
     

    And it is strange that the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line, but the path that light follows. Unless you define that as the shortest distance.

    The conversation became a little tensor.

    • CommentAuthornicaboker
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2007
     

    Thanks for the answers guys, I'd like to delve into what Paulustrious is starting to go into, mostly for the sake of a slight change.

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      CommentAuthorTwinch
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007 edited
     

    I found this article interesting

    http://www.null-hypothesis.co.uk/science/strange-but-true/item/gravity_canada_geological_glacier_bizarre

    Gravity is not the same the world over!

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      CommentAuthorPaulustrious
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007 edited
     

    'Bounce-back' from glacial depression is quite common. Lake Ontario (on which Toronto lies) was once considerably bigger. You can see evidence of the original shore line in and around Toronto. Magnetic anomolies have occured throughout North Eastern Canada and the Laurentian shield.

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      CommentAuthorPaulustrious
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: nicaboker

    Thanks for the answers guys, I'd like to delve into what Paulustrious is starting to go into, mostly for the sake of a slight change.

    It's hard to get away from Udoboy's description without going into mathematics. We've all seen pictures of a rubber sheet with a heavy marble stretching the so-called space-time continuum. This is a two dimensional model seen from a three dimensional perspective. It is a valid perspective but the thing they all seem to miss is how the sheet perceives itself - or more precisely if you were a two dimensional observer living on the sheet. (As an aside there is an interesting book about flatland) You would have no idea and no way to understand the dimension(s) that are orthogonal to sheet on which you live. Suppose we drew a straight line on the flat sheet from A to B passing through X. If the sheet was distorted by a mass placed nesr the line and we drew a new straight line, it would not pass through X. From my god-like three dimesional perspective I can see the 'truth'. But the two-dimensional observer cannot jump out of his frame of reference. (ie off the sheet) The new A-B line IS straight to him and is the shortest distance between those two points. It is the path that a beam of light would follow. Hence we can say light is affected by mass. Actually, it is affected by the distortion created by the mass. This distortion is (well sort of) gravity. An object placed near the depression would make its own depression. On this frictionless sheet the two objects would want to move towards each other. The nearer they are, the more they are 'attracted' to each other. Light has no mass, makes no depression, and can never be stationary. It behaves differently to matter.

    (Bits of the previous paragraph are simplified/pseudo-bollocks so I can understand what I am saying.)

    We need to now to make a mind-jump and see ourselves as super-gods able to perceive three dimensional space (a sort of rubber universe) from a four-dimensional perspective. We see things simutaneously as they were and as they are. Our super-god can see the effects that masses have on our three dimensional space. We normal human would see an A-B straight line, and not really understand that it is not 'really' straight unless there are no masses around to distort it.

    We could not see directly that a planet (or star or black hole) alters its local space. But we can observe the fact that our three dimensional A-B straight-line no longer passes through X when a large mass is moved close to that line.

    I hope this confuses you as much as it confuses me. It is why Einstein was so brilliant. This all derived from a 'thought-experiment'. Although I think it was Minkovski who first described it mathematically in the early 1900's.

    And from there we have to jump into tensor mathematics, to describe observers, events, horizons, Reimann spaces, manifolds ... and the other beautiful equation...

    s2 = c2 . t2 - r2

    And that is way beyond me now.

    As another aside, in high school we derived e=mc2 from first principles. It is surprisingly easy. You just have to be a genius to do it first.

    • CommentAuthor5010
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007
     

    Although science hasn't yet isolated an anti-gravity particle, you can consider any force opposing gravity to be anti-gravity. In this sense, the 'normal' force of the ground against your feet is exactly enough to counter the g-force pulling you down. A superconductor placed over a magnet will levitate. You can walk on water if you put enough corn starch in it and walk fast enough (but will sink if you stand still). I know an archeologist that found a layer of cornstarch residue in a core sample taken by the river Jordan that he believes is 2000 years old, but is waiting for the carbon dating process to confirm.

    • CommentAuthorteter
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2007
     

    I am surprised that the fundamentals of the anti-gravity device have not been supplied here yet.

    Premise 1: Universal Law dictates that buttered toast will always, based on countless observations, land buttered-side down when dropped.

    Premise 2: Natural Law tells us that a dropped cat will always land on its feet.

    Construction of the Anti-Gravity device. Lash a piece of buttered toast to the back of a cat with the butter-side facing up.

    Raise the device to the desired elevation and release. The opposing forces will result in a zero rate of descent.

    To achieve an increase in elevation, simply scape away a portion of the butter from the toast. Note: use great care in doing this so as to prevent explosive decompression of the device and also to ensure that the user is capable of retrieving the device.

    To achieve a reduction in elevation, simply apply butter to the toast component of the device. Again note that care should be taken to avoid rapid changes that might result in damage to the landing gear of the device.

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      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2007
     

    There is a flaw in your reasoning, if the two forces balanced eachother out, the cat and the toast would simply land on their sides.

    • CommentAuthorwwbwb9636
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2007 edited
     

    Then you should strap two cats back to back and buttered toast to the sides, front and butts of the cats. Viola... perpetual spinning everywhere!

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      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2007
     

    NO!!

    They did that on Primulon 6, of the Slavine empire.

    The cat's started spinning fast, too fast. When the cat's spinning reached the speed of light it started slowing down, and the forces acting upon it stopped. The cat gained so much heat it started expanding, overpowering the forces of gravity that keep it together, but when it lost the heat the gravity forces reached critical and it imploded because of the high speeds and sucked in everything around it!

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      CommentAuthornyarfdude
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2007 edited
     

    This is the first time I've been in this thread, and I'm not even going to ask....

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      CommentAuthorFact totum
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2007
     
    Posted By: nyarfdude

    This is the first time, I've been in this thread

    Extraneous comma!

    I am not in this thread; I am hovering above it weightlessly.

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      CommentAuthornyarfdude
    • CommentTimeJul 17th 2007
     

    hehe....

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeJul 18th 2007
     
    Posted By: 5010

    Although science hasn't yet isolated an anti-gravity particle, ....

    Are you insinuating that science has isolated a gravity particle? I mean, I have a couple in a jar in the basement, but most scientists don't know about them yet.

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      CommentAuthorYika
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2007
     
    Posted By: nyarfdude

    hehe....

    That avatar Nyarf.. its confusing!

    • CommentAuthor5010
    • CommentTimeJul 31st 2007
     

    teter,
    Brilliant! Do you still need toast if you use Schrödinger's Cat?

    Udoboy,
    If what I said implies what you suspected, then each guy who claims he hasn't has sex yet with a girl would be identified as 'gay' even though 72% are virgins and 25% are lying.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2007
     
    Posted By: 5010

    Udoboy,
    If what I said implies what you suspected, then each guy who claims he hasn't has sex yet with a girl would be identified as 'gay' even though 72% are virgins and 25% are lying.

    How many guys do you know who claim they haven't yet had sex with a girl?

    They're all gay.

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      CommentAuthorYika
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: 5010

    72% are virgins and 25% are lying.

    72+25=97. Um.. 3% are transsexuals?

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      CommentAuthorTrance
    • CommentTimeAug 1st 2007
     

    Or 3% are actually gay...

    • CommentAuthorteter
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2007
     
    Posted By: 5010

    teter,
    Brilliant! Do you still need toast if you use Schrödinger's Cat?

    I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death.

    No, no, no. I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying. I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. ...What?

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      CommentAuthormargaret
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2007
     

    Feeling a little Evil today, teter? Maybe you should go to the Dr.

  1.  
    Posted By: teter
    Posted By: 5010

    teter,
    Brilliant! Do you still need toast if you use Schrödinger's Cat?

    I have an even better idea. I'm going to place him in an easily escapable situation involving an overly elaborate and exotic death.

    No, no, no. I'm going to leave them alone and not actually witness them dying. I'm just gonna assume it all went to plan. ...What?

    Go on, take a peek, just a little peek.

    Nobody will know.

    Except you, me and the cat.

    And I guess we'll have to inform the cat's family.