Here's a theory - "Right" is anything that progresses the human race emotionally, intellectually, and/or _______. (Incidentally, shipping all of the people who buy into Gullible.info with no questions asked would, by this definition, be "right.")

Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

Here's a theory - "Right" is anything that progresses the human race emotionally, intellectually, and/or _______. (Incidentally, shipping all of the people who buy into Gullible.info with no questions asked would, by this definition, be "right.")

I don't agree with that.
doing hard labor all day against your will would make you stronger, but is it the right thing?

Can you give me an example where right and wrong can be confusing?

And if he doesn't go through the surgery, he will either die painlessly, or have severe defects the rest of his life.

i think you can use 'ethical' and 'moral' interchangably. whereas you can substitute 'right' in place of 'ethical' and 'wrong' in place of 'corrupt'.

That's where I think religion needs to step in.

Of course.

Posted By: Fizzer

I don't see how progressing the human race is necessarily a big right. Whats wrong with people being where they are? What need is there to advance to something else, and who's to say it's really advancing in the end? People should live, experience life's ups and downs, treat others with kindness, etc. If they are happy progressing, thats fine, but there's no reason people should have to.

Well, where we are is a world that's got several major issues like pollution, population growth, and genocide, to name a few. I'd like to progress a little further. What happened to the dream of populating outer space? (they wanted to send me and Angelina Jolie but then Bush/Cheney cut the funding)

Posted By: jsimpleton

...Some well known ones are abortion rights, torture, and capital punishment. There really isn't a clear cut 'right' or 'wrong'. You can get different answers depending on who you ask.

Does abortion "progress" the human race? That fetus (baby, whatever - that's a whole different discussion) could be the next Tesla, the next Warhol, etc. Capital punishment? Surely a serial killer is not "progressing" our kind by ridding the world of contributing citizens (even if they are cheap hookers). And why (when) would torture be right?

Of course, I must think of the devil's advocate arguments - there's the raped mother, or the innocent "criminal." Nonetheless, she would be proud to produce Stevie Wonder. As to the criminal, judges are human too. Those sort of mistakes are hopefully rare.

damnit andrés. start makin smilies again!

Does abortion "progress" the human race? That fetus (baby, whatever - that's a whole different discussion) could be the next Tesla, the next Warhol, etc. Capital punishment? Surely a serial killer is not "progressing" our kind by ridding the world of contributing citizens (even if they are cheap hookers). And why (when) would torture be right?

Of course, I must think of the devil's advocate arguments - there's the raped mother, or the innocent "criminal." Nonetheless, she would be proud to produce Stevie Wonder. As to the criminal, judges are human too. Those sort of mistakes are hopefully rare.

There's too many undefined in your arguments. You have yet to define an acceptable term for 'progress'. Anyways
the aborted fetus may be the next genius, but more often than not it won't be. Just playing statistics here and i think i'm winning. There are many instances where right and wrong gets blurred and any action can be justified. The simple answers are the ones that need to be questioned the most.

Haoest is good at philosophy , where is he?

Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

could be the next Tesla, the next Warhol, etc.

Could also be the next Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, or Oklahoma City Bomber.

Hmmm...

Give me an idea and you'll get a discussion.

Should there be a separation of church and web? I think an "official religion" thread is a bad idea.

Words Warning!

Most of this thread was their before I came along so here is my 2 cents!!!

Whether you believe in God or not you are faced with the same dilemma; what was there before? I do not find it any more difficult to believe that God has always existed and that he created the universe than I do that matter has always existed and the universe sprang from that.

I believe in a creator God because I can see design in things and although I know that it is possible that everything evolved I find it as unlikely as I would that a watch in a scrap yard had evolved from the metal around it.

Since I believe in a God it would make sense to believe that He had a set of rules to follow. Unfortunately, if that is the case, I don’t know what they are. I was bought up in a Christian environment and for a long while I fully believed in it but if I had been brought up amongst Muslims or Hindus would I have believed in that instead?

I had two problems with Christianity: -

1) Why are there natural disasters? I was given the answer that the world was made perfect and these started to occur when evil came into the world but I find that difficult to accept.
2) Predestination. I find this a little easier to understand (!) If you had children you would want them to choose how to live their lives (free will). If you knew that a course of action would lead to their death would you stop them from doing it? How often would you intervene? Would you then start intervening to stop them hurting themselves at all? Either someone has free will or they don’t as soon as you step in you are taking away their free will. To resolve this issue Christians say that God sent Jesus so that if you believe in Him you can have eternal life in heaven even if you screw up your life on earth.

I stopped believing in organised religion for two other reasons.

1) The nature of human beings is such that organised religion is full of hypocrites. People tell you what to do but can’t do it themselves and in a lot of cases behave worse than the non-religious people.
2) Religion didn’t bring me happiness. I spent a great deal of time trying to follow rules that ultimately I didn’t really want to and feeling guilty when I didn’t.

In my job I see people that look after their elderly relatives in ways that are far beyond what I could do. I also see others that leave them to die. My philosophy in life is now "look after the ones you love as best you can", unfortunately that isn’t always easy or possible.

Phew! If you could be bothered to read all that, thank you for taking the time.

I can't seem to quote just one part of a comment even if I highlight it first so I will go and practice but for now:-

Posted by Trance:

"If I want to go, say, rock climbing, and my parents try to intervene, that doesn't necessarily hinder my free will, it just provides me with an obstacle exclusive to that path of free will, I can overcome it or change my mind."

I'm talking about intervening in such a way as to actually preventing you from doing it such as permanently locking you in your room.

Posted By: Twinch

1) The nature of human beings is such that organised religion is full of hypocrites. People tell you what to do but can’t do it themselves and in a lot of cases behave worse than the non-religious people.

Posted by Trance

"I can't think of any examples..."

I genuinely hope you never meet people like I have described. Without going into details I found out that my real friends were not the people in church but those outside it.

Posted By: Twinch

1) Why are there natural disasters? I was given the answer that the world was made perfect and these started to occur when evil came into the world but I find that difficult to accept.

The Christian reply to this that I read is this: God could not eliminate natural disasters without eliminating the planet, and therefore all the people. So, we have to remember that Jesus took upon himself all the suffering and sin when He died on the cross.

I don't believe that, but it's a fair reply.

Maybe he's not really omnipotent.

I can't understand why He even made the Earth, unless he was bored and had this massive ego thing going.

What more is religion other than a means of trying to explain parts of science we don't know?

I don't know what happens to a person after they die, so I'll theorize and say they go to either a Heaven or a Hell.
I don't know how or why the Earth was created, so I'll theorize and say an almighty being created it at his leisure.

Posted By: jamie0885

While I believe that as a race we would be better off without religion, on an individual basis religion is often a very good thing. I helps people through bad times and it does often make someone a better person (though on the contrary, it could turn someone into a suicide bomber). As for which religion you are a part, I think it is mostly irrelevant, it is how you interpret that religion that counts.

The very last phrase is the most important. It's not necessarily the various rites and prayers associated with any particular religion, it's what the individual brings away from the sermon.

Religion is only good for "morality." But once a person matures to the point where they have a strong sense of self and a code of ethics that fits with society, then religion is pretty much worthless, so far as behavior-modification is concerned. In short, religion is good for 5 year olds.

Caesarian-delivered babies who expect birthday presents should have their eyes skewered with a hot poker. Or their car keyed. Your choice.

Why did God/Jesus only appear to the Middle East? They're pretty lucky to have God show up there, turning the rest of the world into "heathens."

On predestination - seems to me that if God can see the "beginning and the end" then he's the one who sends people to hell. He creates them, knows what they're going to "choose", and that's the way it goes. If He didn't know, that would suggest he's not omnipotent.

Why is the Christian God so bloodthirsty? He wants sacrifices of goats, lambs, even Abraham's son! You covet your neighbor's wife, blood pays. This culminated with human sacrifice (Jesus).

Whoops, that was supposed to be longer:

Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

On predestination - seems to me that if God can see the "beginning and the end" then he's the one who sends people to hell. He creates them, knows what they're going to "choose", and that's the way it goes. If He didn't know, that would suggest he's not omnipotent.

God knows what we will choose, but that does not mean he chooses it for us.

Posted By: [Expletive Deleted]

Why is the Christian God so bloodthirsty? He wants sacrifices of goats, lambs, even Abraham's son! You covet your neighbor's wife, blood pays. This culminated with human sacrifice (Jesus).

The sacrifices of goats and lambs was ancient Judaism. God did not actually want the sacrifice of Abraham's son, it was a test of faith

For future Reference: When i say "God" I am also referring to Yahweh/Allah.

It's just an idea...But an idea is hard to kill.