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Citation Station: Structural integrity of an egg

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      CommentAuthorDrigger
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2006
     

    The age old question, how structurally strong is an egg? or more specifically the shell of an egg? There is another topic in this forum about a string that cannot be broken, that if it was perfect, it would still break or crack somehow under enough pressure, so I assume the same for an eggshell, but how strong is it really?

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2006
     

    We just did some testing here in the office, and a typical chicken egg can take a force of 17 Newtons lengthwise, and 14 Newtons along the width.

    Your chicken egg milage may vary.

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      CommentAuthorcadet
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2006
     

    And 17 newtons may not sound like much, but keep in mind that climbing carabiners are only rated to 27 newtons at most and that translates into roughly 5000-6000 lbs of force.

    • CommentAuthorcats.pal
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2006
     

    Last time I checked, 1 kilogram translates to 9.8 Newtons on Earth. This in mind, 27 Newtons translates to 2.755102 kilograms of force. I have no idea how you got 5,000 to 6,000 pounds of force from 27 Newtons.

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      CommentAuthorcadet
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2006
     

    Oh, yes you are completely correct. That is my mistake. I meant kilonewtons not just newtons. 27 Kilonewtons translates to 6000 something lbs.

    I appologize for the mistake.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2006
     

    If an egg were made of spidersilk, it could withstand the force of two bull deer colliding during mating season.

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      CommentAuthorMonetdell
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2006 edited
     

    Really?
    what if it were made of steel?
    the shape is supposedly made so it is the weakest from the inside but very strong on the outside,and in a shape that can get out of the chicken easily.
    I'm not sure of this and have no proof but it is a very logical reason

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2006
     

    Spider silk is 600X stronger than steel and 400X strong than kevlar. Scientists in Montreal are trying to genetically engineer goats that produce spider silk from their mammory glands. It is pretty remarkable stuff, check out this link:
    http://www.howstuffworks.com/news-item38.htm

  9.  

    Well, apparrently normal silk can stop a bullet (Karl Kruszelnicki, Pigeon Poo, the Unverse and Car Paint, 2001, HarperCollins) even when only a milimetre thick, and silkworm silk isn't as strong as some types of spider silk. And I suppose the structure of an egg is a bit like that Roman arch with the keystone, that the harder you press on it, the stronger it is.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006
     
    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    Spider silk is 600X stronger than steel and 400X strong than kevlar. Scientists in Montreal are trying to genetically engineer goats that produce spider silk from their mammory glands. It is pretty remarkable stuff, check out this link:
    http://www.howstuffworks.com/news-item38.htm

    Pfft... we argue about stem cell research and the Canadians are doing that?

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006
     

    Well I would rather mess with some goats than destroy human life. Life begins at fertilization.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006 edited
     

    I agree with you there, or at least see your point well enough to not argue it. If somebody came along with an alternate argument, I could see their point well enough not to argue it either. I don't have all the answers.

    But there are ways to use stem cells without necessarily destroying a living human.

    And, there are stem cells that are being discarded by the medical community, which could be used in research, but are otherwise being destroyed.

    AND, what makes human life superior to goat life?

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      CommentAuthorDrigger
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006
     

    goats dont have a soul, or a personality, or a higher level of consciousness, etc. want me to go on?

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      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006
     

    Well I would rather mess with some goats than destroy human life. Life begins at fertilization.
    Since so many "lives" are being thrown away at sperm banks everyday, do you not agree that these "lives" should be used to possibly save the life of a walking, talking human?

    goats dont have a soul, or a personality, or a higher level of consciousness, etc. want me to go on?
    Higher level of consciousness maybe, but based on the fact that they live, they have some amount of soul in them, and anyone that has ever owned a pet knows that animals have personality. It's more a matter of us being able to see these things in animals. We interpret a human's personality by how they talk and dress. Since goats don't really do that, it's easy to overlook their personality.

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      CommentAuthorlegatissimo
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006 edited
     

    As a former goat farmer I can assure you that goats have oodles of personality... loveable creatures they are

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: cmseagle

    Since so many "lives" are being thrown away at sperm banks everyday, do you not agree that these "lives" should be used to possibly save the life of a walking, talking human?

    I'm pretty sure stem cells come from fetuses (mabye fetusi, but that is neither here nor there). And I don't consider sperm to be human life since it has not been combined with an egg and there are a few million in each ejaculation. And to Udoboy, humans are superior because God made us the dominant species, we were made in his image, and we should act as such. Goats have always seemed a little devilish anyway, with the horns and hooves it's hard for me to feel compassion for such a demonic creature.

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      CommentAuthorD League
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: legatissimo

    As a former goat farmer I can assure you that goats have oodles of personality... loveable creatures they are

    I used to go to a farm with goats... We would fight over the one big rock in the middle of the pen. Good times. :thumbup:

    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    ...Goats have always seemed a little devilish anyway, with the horns and hooves it's hard for me to feel compassion for such a demonic creature.

    What's so demonic about hooves?

    Wow. We got pretty far off topic.

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2006
     

    Well i always imagine the devil with little black hooves, and I think the reason Muslims and Jews don't eat pork has to do with the hooves of the pig. Something about the way they are split.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2006 edited
     

    The concept was "don't eat the flesh of the cloven-foot animal."

    You have yet to prove the existence of God, and therefore of the existence of a soul, and therefore cannot tell me that a human being has more intrinsic "worth" than a goat.

    Isaac was ordered to sacrifice a human, and then later a ram was considered an acceptable substitute. Ergo, a ram's life is the same as a human's life. It's in the Bible. I can extrapolate this to goat, but that part is left as an exercise for the reader.

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2006
     

    \There are many holes in the theroy of evolution and I can't see how life as complex as ours would be possible without some sort of divine intervention. As to how I am worth more than a goat: there is practically nothing a goat can do that a human cannot. However, there is a multitude of things I can do that a goat can't even imagine. Therefore, my life is worth more than that of a goat.

  21.  
    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    there is practically nothing a goat can do that a human cannot. However, there is a multitude of things I can do that a goat can't even imagine.

    I'll believe you only if you're kidding.

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      CommentAuthorD League
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2006
     
    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    there is practically nothing a goat can do that a human cannot. However, there is a multitude of things I can do that a goat can't even imagine.

    Can you leap five feet vertically without mechanical assistance?
    And the only person I know with an amazing headbutt is Zinedine Zidane. :wink:

  23.  

    What about being capable of producing commercial-quality wool AND milk?

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      CommentAuthorandresoforo
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    \There are many holes in the theroy of evolution and I can't see how life as complex as ours would be possible without some sort of divine intervention. As to how I am worth more than a goat: there is practically nothing a goat can do that a human cannot. However, there is a multitude of things I can do that a goat can't even imagine. Therefore, my life is worth more than that of a goat.

    Can you eat paper all day long without getting sick??

    And now that I think of it, goats are also rather polite for not killing all of us after humans gave been killing goats throughout history.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    However, there is a multitude of things I can do to a goat that you can't even imagine. Therefore, I feel my life is worthless without a goat.

    Hey, whatever floats your boat, man. :bigsmile:

    • CommentAuthorelcabo
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: Drigger

    goats dont have a soul, or a personality, or a higher level of consciousness, etc. want me to go on?

    I've grown tired of this. What makes a person think that a goat (or any other animal) does not have a soul while humans do? If you can PROVE to me that humans have a soul and animals do not, I will become your slave for life.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     

    21 grams

    first, wash my car.

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      CommentAuthorDrigger
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006
     

    lol, i got homework, and bills to pay if you would like to do that after you wash his car

    but serously, back to subject: is it even plausible to make an egg shape out of that silk stuff?

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     

    God gave me a soul and he didn't give one to the goats, read some of the bible thats all you will ever need.

    And yes, it would be somewhat difficult but you could shape spider silk into an egg shape. You would probably need some sort of paper-mache technique.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006
     

    God also demanded that the firstborn of all of Judea/Israel be dedicated to him... children and beasts. Again, the Bible puts animals on par with humans.

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      CommentAuthorD League
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006
     
    Posted By: Udoboy

    God also demanded that the firstborn of all of Judea/Israel be dedicated to him... children and beasts. Again, the Bible puts animals on par with humans.

    Not necessarily. Just because they are dedicated to him doesn't mean that they are equal.

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      CommentAuthorlegatissimo
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     

    Maybe such important questions as the existence or nonexistence of a supreme being merits its own thread. I'm just sayin'.

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      CommentAuthorcmseagle
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     

    "There are many holes in the theory of evolution and I can't see how life as complex as ours would be possible without some sort of divine intervention. As to how I am worth more than a goat: there is practically nothing a goat can do that a human cannot. However, there is a multitude of things I can do that a goat can't even imagine. Therefore, my life is worth more than that of a goat."

    I'll just act like you're pretending, that way, i won't go into a homicidal rage. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but the fact is, Darwin never said anything about God existing or not, he said that everything evolved from another animal, in order to survive. If you debate this fact, someone needs to back a car over your head. Repeatedly.

    -CMS

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      CommentAuthorKRistos
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     

    Whether goats have souls or not is beside the point of this topic. What's interesting is why goats are being used to make spider silk in the first place. Why not just use spiders?? seems logical enough. I heard somewhere that it's cuz spiders tend to eat each other when kept in captivity. Anyone have an alternate answer or a better one.
    Still, why goats?
    Are goats more efficient at making spider silk than say, sheep?

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      CommentAuthorD League
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: KRistos

    Whether goats have souls or not is beside the point of this topic. What's interesting is why goats are being used to make spider silk in the first place. Why not just use spiders?? seems logical enough. I heard somewhere that it's cuz spiders tend to eat each other when kept in captivity. Anyone have an alternate answer or a better one.
    Still, why goats?
    Are goats more efficient at making spider silk than say, sheep?

    1) Spiders are canabalistic but more importantly they can't mass produce it. With goats, they can make alot more.
    2) The spider silk is gathered from the milk
    3) What's cooler than a goat that has spider silk in its milk? :shades: I can see a comic coming from this...:bigsmile:

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2006
     

    RTFA!

    The article clearly states the answers to your questions:

    1. Spiders don't make enough silk and what they do make is actually being used by said spider for its survival.
    2. The spider silk gene fits nicely into goat DNA, so that it only affects goats during lactation and at no other time.

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      CommentAuthorD League
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2006 edited
     
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      CommentAuthorKRistos
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2006
     

    oh it does, i didn't catch the part about goat DNA, sorry. my web browser is kinda flaking out on me and won't load howstuffworks anymore. It did yesterday but i only skimmed through the article.

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      CommentAuthorD League
    • CommentTimeDec 3rd 2006 edited
     
    Posted By: andresoforo

    Can you eat paper all day long without getting sick??

    And now that I think of it, goats are also rather polite for not killing all of us after humans gave been killing goats throughout history.

    Would the goats have a revolution? I can see it now... Goats with AKs storming the houses of defenseless farmers and mowing them down like the grass they eat every morning. Then they would over run the government and set up "Novus Oryx Ordino." "A New Goat Order."

    By the way, we have domesticated goats for the past 9,000 years.

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2006
     
    Posted By: cmseagle

    I'll just act like you're pretending, that way, i won't go into a homicidal rage. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but the fact is, Darwin never said anything about God existing or not, he said that everything evolved from another animal, in order to survive. If you debate this fact, someone needs to back a car over your head. Repeatedly.

    -CMS

    I never said anything about evolution existing or not. I simply said that it has many holes, holes that only God can fill.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2006
     

    Don't you mean "it has holes that cannot be filled by any conventional wisdom and whenever conventional wisdom won't work we resort to claiming that God must be the answer." ?

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2006
     

    If you translated what I said from english into future hell inhabitant language, then yes that is exactly what I meant.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2006
     
    Posted By: JoshuaU490

    If you translated what I said from english into future hell inhabitant language, then yes that is exactly what I meant.

    I'll repent at the last minute.

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      CommentAuthorMonetdell
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2006 edited
     

    not being evil or anything but stop dragging religion into every discussion.
    joshuU490
    let us consider the other matters first,feel free to start a new discussion about religion.
    and whenever someone says something "blastphemous" ignore it and learn to respect other peoples beliefs!

    Posted By: Udoboy

    Don't you mean "it has holes that cannot be filled by any conventional wisdom and whenever conventional wisdom won't work we resort to claiming that God must be the answer." ?

    this isn't always the case,people blame the government too say that there hiding info from us and rubbish like that,but like the court of law there is no way of knowing it until it is proved correct or false.

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeDec 5th 2006
     

    All i said was "Well I would rather mess with some goats than destroy human life." then i had to defend myself against the wolves. Please excuse me for not being spineless.

  46.  

    you are excused..or bless you (in case it was more of a sneeze kind of "excuse me")

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