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Citation Station: The worlds smallest country

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      CommentAuthorMonetdell
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2006
     

    What is the smallest a country can be to not count as an island is it measured in Metres squared or the number of population?
    i've heard that the smallest country is near japan somewhere

  2.  

    I'm pretty sure the Holy See, also known as Vatican City, fits that bill. Can anyone back that up?

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2006
     

    https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2147rank.html

    Bassas Da India according to the jokers at the CIA

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2006
     

    CIA? Haven't we learned that their reliability is about on par with Wikipedia's? :tongue:

  5.  

    Well the joker's at the CIA said that Bassas Da India is controlled by France. So it would be a territory. So then the Vatican or Holy See, would be the smallest independant inhabitanted country.

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2006
     

    it is termed sovereign.

    indeed Taed :)

  7.  

    Actually, it's termed, "possession of France". Which would not make it a country. So, the Holy See or The Vatican is the smallest country in the world

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2006 edited
     

    I'm pretty sure that the answer is Sealand, though not all governments recognize it as a country. Here's a link to their web site, but of course, it was written by "the man":
    http://www.sealandgov.org/

    There's various writeups of the history of Sealand in various places (the recent Wired article is pretty good), and they leave one with the conclusion that it is a country, but that the government and populace might all be nutters.

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2006 edited
     

    lol beatle, stop being dumb. The Vatican is the smallest SOVEREIGN country in the world. Bassas Da India is not sovereign, hence I giving you the correct word to define the difference. For some reason you thought I was calling Bassas Da India sovereign...

  10.  

    Sealand isn't recognized by any country and isn't really a country. It's just a small collection of people in the sea. How can you count that as a country?

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2006
     

    The United Kingdom has officially recognized Sealand as a sovereign country since December 2005. And once that happened, most of NATO (with the major exception of the US) has followed suit. They now have embassies in the UK, Iceland, and Greenland, although admittedly, they're run out of friend's apartments. The United Nations has also officially accepted their application for membership, which should go up for vote in the next session which starts in February.

    And just how does one define a "country" anyway?

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2006
     

    I took a look at them... not much a country! I plan to do the same thing, only in the south pacific somewhere on a real island which is considerably bigger and more beautiful. bloody 'ell that thing is just an oil rig really!

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2006
     

    I was thinking about personally seceding from the USofA and defining my "territory" as the volume of space I occupy at any given moment.

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2006
     

    Cecil (The Straight Dope) gave some instructions for starting one's own country here: http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_300.html

    It should also be noted that he gave 4 conditions that define a country, and Sealand meets that definition.

    • CommentAuthorcats.pal
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2006
     

    I thought that the smallest country was the one that started in that kid's bedroom.

    I heard about it somewhere, but a young child declared his bedroom his own country. I believe the country is about 4 blocks wide (at most) and is not recognized by anyone except the council. They operate under US law.

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2006
     

    Abraham Lincoln destroyed your ability to secede, which is the ultimate form of democracy, and in doing so fucked America over for good.

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      CommentAuthorAthene
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
     

    I once seceded from our call center at work and declared my cubicle my own country. It didn't work - they still expected me to do my job.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
     

    Next time, try seducing your boss.

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      CommentAuthorAthene
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2006
     

    Nah - they were all women - not really my thing... :)

    • CommentAuthorsohil
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2006 edited
     

    I'm a sure 100% it's Vatican City. It's area is 0.44 Square Miles and Population of 1000 (Last Time I checked)

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      CommentAuthorlegatissimo
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2006 edited
     

    CIA says .44 sq km, 932 people. Geography notes:

    landlocked; enclave in Rome, Italy; world's smallest state; beyond the territorial boundary of Vatican City, the Lateran Treaty of 1929 grants the Holy See extraterritorial authority over 23 sites in Rome and five outside of Rome, including the Pontifical Palace at Castel Gandolfo (the Pope's summer residence)

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2006
     

    Vatican City is practically a super-power compared to Sealand. Sealand has a permanent population of around 5 and a size of 0.30 square kilometers, but that's multiple levels, so I think the actual "area" from a bird's-eye view is more like 0.03 square kilometers.

    But Sealand has at least one mounted machine gun plus assorted small arms, and I assume that the Vatican doesn't. So, Sealand could kick the Vatican's butt. Sealand even used the machine guns to fire on a UK warship (which shot back) that had invaded Sealand's territorial waters without permission, and I believe even officially declared war against the UK. The warship eventually left and didn't come back, thus giving great credence to Sealand's claim of being a country.

  23.  

    Sealand would die against the Vatican because Sealand couldn't attack The Vatican without attacking Italy. And then Italy would easily bomb Seanland and kill all 5 people on the thing. So it would cease to exist. So Sealand would get killed in a war against The Vatican.

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2006
     

    My micro-nation can kick your micro-nation's butt! Sealand went to war with the UK and who backed down? (No, not France, but based on historical evidence, that is a good guess.) The answer is the UK. So, you're saying that Italy has more warpower than the Brits? I don't think so. But then again, they didn't fare so well against the Falklands...

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      CommentAuthorGeog
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2006
     

    The reason the UK backed down was probably because they thought that it was a waste of time to wage war against 5 people :neutral:

    I mean, I wouldn't fire up the warship just to bomb a few peeps.

  26.  

    Your micro-nation would die if it ever tried to attack the vatican. They only have 5 people and they r concentrated in a really small area. So all someone would have to do is drop one bomb and they'd be done. They couldn't attack the vatican because they'd first attack italy. And italy would crush them. So Sealand would die if it attacked anyone.

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2006
     

    I'm not so sure, beatlesluvr. I think Libya has a carte blanche mutual-defense pact with any country that wipes out the Vatican. Besides, a decisive first strike would eliminate the city anyway.

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      CommentAuthorMonetdell
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2006
     

    yes but what is the difference bettween between a country and a island?
    is it merely size or are there more factors?

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      CommentAuthorElixer
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2006 edited
     

    Population? It's status, I think you need to be able to declare war and defend yourself. But then again, France has a hard time with that itself. I think we should invade the French "territory."

    • CommentAuthorelbobbito
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2006 edited
     

    I'm afraid you're all wrong.

    The Sovereign Military Order of Malta, fully titled as the "Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of St. John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta, has, since its inception during the First Crusade around 1100, held sovereignty at times over Rhodes, Malta and parts of the Holy Land, and is at present recognised as a 'sovereign entity', despite being without land since the ejection of the Order from Malta by Napoleon in 1785. The SMOM has also been granted Permanent Observer status at the UN. The Order's claims to sovereignty range from formal diplomatic relations with 94 countries, official relations with a further 6, the issuance of passports, licence plates, coins and stamps. The latest stamps were printed with the Euro as the unit of postage, although the SMOM retains the Scudo as its official currency. Approximately 10,000 knights of the Order exist worldwide.

    A sovereign state, then, without any land. Barring, that is, two buildings; the Pallazo Malta (the residence of the Grand Master) and Villa Malta (the residence of the Order's Ambassadors to Italy and to the Holy See), both in Rome.
    The smallest sovereign state in the world?

  31.  

    vaticancity

  32.  

    i hate u guys

  33.  

    :devil:

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      CommentAuthorElixer
    • CommentTimeAug 31st 2006
     
    Posted By: ludakrishna

    i hate u guys

    I'm in no way trying to be a jackass. But please do us a favor and post meaningful content, or at least something we can laugh at. Thanks.

    • CommentAuthorfortsts
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2006
     

    ok so i read about what the requiremenes are for becoming a country, but say I accomplished all those. now what do i do? who would i talk or tell or ask or whatever in proclaiming my country?

    i dont get it.

  36.  

    Sealand is officially the smallest.

    Sealand could be called on as an ally in any UN santioned or enforced conflict, thus making it a part of the Global Community.
    The The Holy See is banned from taking part in any conflict not on its borders, and cannot send troops to aid in any UN santioned or enforced conflict as it would be against international law. The guards are Swiss (the Swiss Guard in fact) and the Swiss operate under the same international law. So The Holy See offers less to the Global Community.

    Sealand has defeated a Major Power (The UK) in an armed conflict (actually a decalared war, after a UK destroyer invaded the nation's teritorial waters) without calling on any allies. The US couldn't beat Vietnam at all or Iraq without help.

    Sealand has coins. The Vatican uses Lira (they both have stamps.)

    Sealand has a royal family and guvornment. The Holy See is a religious state run by a despotic madman who thinks he can hear the word of god. (hyperbolic joke)

    ****

    And as for the CIA vs Wikipedia... At least Wikipedia is wrong and POPULAR.

    :cool:

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      CommentAuthorUdoboy
    • CommentTimeSep 1st 2006
     
    Posted By: fortsts

    ok so i read about what the requiremenes are for becoming a country, but say I accomplished all those. now what do i do? who would i talk or tell or ask or whatever in proclaiming my country?

    i dont get it.

    You were not brought upon this planet to "get it," Mr fortsts.

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      CommentAuthorGeog
    • CommentTimeSep 2nd 2006
     

    You're saying that Sealand has a royal family and government comprised of 5 people? And perhaps even a population?

    I guess don't know enough about politics.

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2006
     

    I saw the vatican yesterday from 25,000 feet over Rome :)

    Sealand would not exist if it was any other country but the UK, they are just too tolerant and patient... can you imagine if that warship was american, chinese or russian? they would paste that thing!

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      CommentAuthorGeog
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2006
     

    Or Canadian...? :shamed:

    • CommentAuthorFarcabio
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2006
     

    Are you sure that MicroNations are included, if so are you sure the smallest 'country' isn't Lovely, started by Danny Wallace. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lovely_%28micronation%29

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      CommentAuthorTaed
    • CommentTimeSep 30th 2006
     

    No, that "micro-nation" fails the 4-part test discussed above. The two main failures are that:
    -- It does not have a permanent population: any time Danny goes down to the pub, the country's population drops to 0.
    -- Other entities have control over the country's land in that he rents his flat (so the landlord could kick him out) and the UK claims that land as part of its country.

  43.  

    THe Vatican City

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      CommentAuthorBigRig
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2006
     
    I have been banned

    d00d... Luxembourg is the smallest fucking country you are all dicks:middlefinger:

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      CommentAuthorMrFingers
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2006
     

    I think you need to expand your vocabulary beyond "dick", oh and find some brain cells too.

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2006
     

    he sometimes adds the word weed onto the end of dick, brilliant right?

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      CommentAuthorGeog
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2006
     

    Grammatical genius. It's like mixing Marijuana with penis!

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      CommentAuthorAthene
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2006
     

    Hmmm... maybe he was calling us private investigators... In a sense, we are - tirelessly searching out obscure and interesting facts for the loyal readers...

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      CommentAuthorJoshuaU490
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2006
     

    actually, gay hippes are credited for mixing marijuana and penis.

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      CommentAuthorGeog
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2006
     

    Then I guess "dickweed" is some kind of term derived from gay hippies or something.

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